One of the things fisherpersons in New Jersey like to do during the summer, after the striper run is over, is ply the surf for panfish, smaller fish whose deliciousness makes up for what they lack in size. The northern kingfish, Menticirrhus saxatilis, is the main target species, but spot, which historically has been a more southern fish, have shown up in good numbers each of the last few summers, and they are now a viable target as well.

The method to catch these tasty little guys is to fish a small piece of bait, usually clam or one of the new fake bloodworms, on a small hook. You use a basic high-low or fishfinder surf bait rig, and as much lead as you’ll need to either hold bottom or to drift slowly.

What has me thinking about this is the fish-to-sinker weight ratio. You usually have to use anywhere from 2-5 ounces of lead to keep your bait in the feeding zone, but if you use a rod that is powerful enough to cast this kind of payload, then you end up with something that’s too stiff to feel the bites from fish that are the size of your hand. Use something that’s noodly enough to feel the bite of an 8-oz. spot, and you lack the heft to cast the weight you need to use. It’s a real dilemma, I tells you.

Has anyone done some experimenting with these kinds of rods? In particular: has anyone tried a live bait rod for this? I’m thinking that a live bait blank, like the Seeker CLB804, might be just the ticket: the very soft tip would allow you to feel small tugs at the end of your line, but the mid-section of the blank has enough heft to allow you to cast the weight you need. Is using a blank like this for the surf a crazy idea, or is it something that someone out there has tried already?

Are there any thoughts out there for suitable blanks for small-fish surf rods?

How about a heavy carp blank of about 3.5lb test curve. This should be able to cast close to 5 oz. of lead and I find that most rods will cast more weight than the rating if you lob the cast somewhat. I pier fish with an old e-glass garcia flipping rod that is rated for 3/4 - 2 oz., but will cast up to 5 oz plus a small bait (live killie, clam, bloodworm, etc.). This has a tip that is light enough to feel a 6"sea robin nibbling.

The carp rods are usually 12' long and have a light tip with plenty of backbone down low. Pac bay makes some of these (costly), St croix has a few(more costly). If you order from across the pond, Guidesnblanks sells Wychwood Carp blanks for 62 British pounds, however the shipping is expensive. Catfish connection has carp rods on sale for approx. $30.00. Buy one of those and strip it and rebuild it.

How far are you needing to cast? We use a lot of inshore type rods when fishing for whiting in Florida, 'averaging 1lb or so', using a high low setup with sand fleas or small pieces of shrimp. The only thing different that I see in the setup is that we only use 1oz or so of lead and let it drift with a slow retrieve to keep the line tought. It is DEADLY!! When everyone else is chucking 5oz of lead a half a mile past the fish, we catch 10x the fish and have a lot more fun doing it with lighter gear. For what we do the Batson IP965 is the ticket.

If you are having to use 2-5oz then I would try a composite livebait blank like you mentioned. I would go with the RCLB80XL, it has the length, power in the mid and butt sections, and a very soft tip that would allow you to feel the lighter bite. The RCLB80XL is an amazing blank!!

We have both in stock and would be glad to help in anyway we can.

Tight Lines and Bull's-eyes,

Get Bit Outdoors
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I would lean toward a fiberglass blank in the 10-11 foot range. The slower action reduces the chance of snapping off fragile bait when you cast for distance, and the softer tip relays light bites. When you adjust your casting stroke to the more parabolic bend of a fiberglass rod you will not sacrifice much distance to a faster graphite rod.

Chris,
This sounds very similar to what we would do off of the Oregon/Washington coast for California Sea Perch. What I found best was something like the Mag Taper action. Although I don't ever remember going over 3 oz the tip is soft enough to throw live bait yet has a tremendous amount of power in the butt. This type of action is also available in the MHX line in 8'6"-10' in the Steelhead line.

[www.mudhole.com]

Regards,
Todd Vivian
Mud Hole Custom Tackle

todd@mudhole.com

These are my two most favorite blanks to make up for people fishing for spot; croaker (hard head); flounder, and medium stripers in the Chesapeake Bay and Assateague Island surf.

SUR1204F Matte Clear 10'0" 2 10-20 lb. 3/4-4 oz. .935 9.5 Moderate-Fast 9.1 oz

SUR1265F Matte Clear 10'6" 2 15-25 lb. 2-6 oz. .925 10.5 Moderate-Fast 9.5 oz.

and I REALLY, REALLY liked the Batson RX4 BP1266F at 3/4 - 3 oz and 12-30 lb line test in the green finish
(which may not be available any longer)

BP1266F M. Clr. 10'6" 2 12-30 lb. 3/4-3 oz. 0.620 5.5 Moderate 5.41 oz



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2011 11:26AM by Ken Preston.

Having used both live bait and hot shot blanks my feelings would amount to if you wish to mostly "see" or "feel" the bite. If you want to "feel" things the hot shot wins by a mile. Either will work for seeing the bite but the live bait blanks are much cheaper and far more durable. Keep in mind the weights listed for the hot shot blanks are trolling not casting weights. Two ounces is no problem but five may be unless it is a gentle lob. You will be surprised how far you can cast the hot shot and with light braid you shouldn't need as much weight.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

FYI ... a kingfish (northern term) is a whiting (southern term).

IMHO circle hooks are the ONLY way to go when fishing bait on bottom, and a sand spike "sets" a circle hook best without human interference. The value of being able to "feel" a bite is minimal.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I'm going to have some fun doing some experimenting with this.

The BP1266F is still available in the Matte Clear finish but I'm not sure about the green.

Enjoy the build Chris, Post up and let us know what you decide and how it performs...

Tight Lines and Bull's-eyes,

Get Bit Outdoors
407-542-7840
www.GetBitOutdoors.com
www.facebook.com/GetBitOutdoors

I did one on a 9ft 8 weight and another on a 9ft 7 weight 4 piece fly blank. I always found kingfish in the surf not on the backside of the breakers. I always travel to the surf. I wanted the longer rod in case some blues or rockfish swam by on the far side of the breakers and I had to get over the top of them. The 8 weight will easily cast a 3/4 oz spoon.

the fly rod blanks combined with light weights right in the suds made for fun fishing.

A light rod and a light weight are enjoyable while fishing bait from the beach in minimum surf conditions. Having to reel in and re-cast every one or two minutes because the waves/wind/current rapidly blows up your bait in a 90 degree arc and on shore is not any fun.
One size does not fit all. I have a 9' rod for one ounce sinkers which sees little use in the surf across the street here on central Florida's east coast. Most of the time it takes a four ounce pyramid or sputnick to effectively fish for whiting/pompano off the beach down here.
Before making blank recommendations based exclusively on target species or distance to cast rod builders should determine environmental factors where the rod will be used.

That's a good comment, Phil.

If I could fish bait with a 1 or 2 oz. sinker, this decision would be easy, as there are a million blanks that would work. What makes this situation more challenging is that you need a rod that's strong enough to cast 4 or 5 ounces, but that has a sensitive enough tip to let you feel the bite of a small fish.

I still want to experiment with the 8-foot live bait blanks for this -- I may even try extending one, and making it 10 or 11 feet, to see how it feels fishing the surf with it. An extended livie blank would end up being, perhaps, the fastest-actioned blank in the history of the world, but it could solve something that I've pondering for a while, which is how do you catch small fish in the surf when you need to use a decent amount of lead to hold bottom.

Marketers have popularized the idea that "excess is best." Golfers are restricted to 14 clubs, but that doesn't keep them from covertly owning 28 putters and 15 drivers. Anglers face no such restrictions and, with compensation from sponsors, advocate carrying six or eight fully-rigged rods, or more, to deceive the wily fishy. I confess to owning far more rods than I could possibly use, but I would prefer that the silly excesses of anglers be kept from public view (and my wife's) to protect the dignity of our pass time.

Look into the steel head blanks. They will give you the back bone to cast 2 oz. weights plus the bait rig and still be able to detect bites and keep the weight down.

I fish on a mid-Atlantic surf fishing team. Everyone on the 6 man team fishes the Batson SU1418F. Small Kings and Blues typically dominate these tournaments, but you can’t fish too light because big Reds and Stripers also roam the area. You will have no problems feeling even the lightest bites using a 1418 with braided line.

Chris,

I'm not too familiar with the surf conditions in New Jersey, but here on the Long Island south shore I find that tackle as light as you can get away with is the best for Kingfish. I often use a one-handed baitcasting rod that comfortably casts 1 to 1 1/2 oz. This is perfect for Kingfish. Other times I will use a 3 oz bank sinker on a 9' light surf spinning rod. Both rods are fiberglass. The first is built on a Lamiglass MB841E cut down to 6'4". The second rod is built on a Lamiglas MB1083M2. I use 12# mono with both of these outfits. I have also used a 6' baitcasting rod built on a Lamiglass MB722F.