Last year I built a rod using composite cork for the complete grip. The owner wanted something other than regular cork to take the abuse of a rod holder. I used rodbond to glue the composite cork on. Last week the grip let go from the blank and now spins freely. I've buit a few hundred rods and this is the first time something like this has ever happened. I do not have the rod back yet, so I haven't had a chance too look closely at it yet. Is there something that I should have checked out before using a complete grip of Composite cork..ie..are there properties of the composite that would make it want to let go. It may be as simple as I didn't use enough RodBond, but I don't think so, after a few hundred rods I think I have that down fairly pat.

Thanks for any help.

Harold

Assuming you had a close fit and a water-break-free blank surface, there's really no reason for it to have let go.

When you apply adhesive you have to make sure to completely coat both mating surfaces. With grips, this means you have to apply the adhesive high enough on the blank so that when you bring the grip down the epoxy coats the inside of the grip. If you don't do this, you end up just squeegeeing the epoxy down the blank and wind up with little to no adhesive between the grip and the blank.

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Without the piece in hand it is all speculation . If the blank was not prepped correctly the bond may have broken between the grip and the top coat of the blank . If it was prepped properly (I had a few I caught myself on after the epoxy was mixed up) you could have a separation of the top coat from the blank. Had this happen once on a cross wrap. The clear coat let go under the force of the thread tension. [www.rodbuilding.org]

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2011 09:01PM by Fred Yarmolowicz.

I doubt it has anything to do with the type of cork. I have built a number of "all composite cork" fly rod grips without any adhesion issues.

I agree that it wasn't the composite cork. I have built plenty of heavy tarpon rods with all composite grips, no problems at all ... even after TONS of abuse in hands and rocket launchers.

If all you did was to to lightly scotch pad the painted surface the bond may have been on the paint or clear -- but the clear or paint may have let go from the blank

I always strip any material from the blank so it is bare so this does not happen

I have repaired a lot of seats where the bond was on the paint or clear yet the paint or clear let go of the blank

I give the surface a good sanding with at least 150 - 220 paper to make sure it has - bite -

Bill - willierods.com

I'll see once I get it back, but I think the clear-coat/paint may be the culprit. To be honest, I have never sanded down to the blank under the grips, so I guess I've been fortunate this hasn't happend before. Good to know there is no problem in the properties of the composite. I didn't think there would have been but I never thought to ask in the first place.

An easy and new step to implement in my builds. Thank-you very much for the input everyone.

Harold

A lot of even high end blanks have been said to have there finish come off with alcohol so if not taken off it probable will come off yet be glued to the handle

Bill - willierods.com

A water-break-free surface is superior to those surfaces that have "bite." Coarse grit sandpaper actually results in a surface that provides a weaker bond.

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Tom how is that so when the adhesive is all the way to thebare blank and there is no 2 or 3 layer bonds. Isn't a rough surface a bettter bond than a smooth surface. I understand if the dust isn't cleaned off it could result in failure but I just don't understand your theory.

Harold,
I read and understand the comments about the water break free surface. Having said that I have never sanded a blank before gluing up the handle.
I do, however, give the blank a full length vigorous wipe down with Xylene before I ever start a build. I do this to remove any oil, wax, or anythihng else that might keep the adhesive from adhering to the blank.

Good luck

Roger

It is certainly not a bad idea to sand the blank well if you want, in the area of the grip and reel seat.

I normally rub the blanks down with alcohol before assembling the grip and reel seat as well. The owner said he heard a slight pop before/just as the grip came loose. I'm curious what that might have been. I first thought it was the last grip of rodbond cracking loose, but who knows. Once I get it apart again, the truth will be in the pudding.

Harold

Just wiping with a solvent (which should never be the last step in your surface prep) is never a good idea. If you didn't clean and then degloss the surface per a water-break-free prep, you may well have set yourself up for a problem.

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Thanks Tom. I guess I've been fortunate in the past. I've picked up some good info on this post so it all helps for the next build.

Harold

What kind of cork were you using? Was it that black Syncork by chance?

Yes it was Billy.

What is a water-break free surface? Being in the automotive repair field for 30 years I know you never refinish over a smooth surface, you never put body filler on smooth sheetmetal. It all needs scuffing for the material to "bite" on.

A smooth, deglossed surface provides the optimum surface for adhesives and coatings. Adhesives and paints do not need anything to "bite" on, but they do need to be able to properly wet the surface.

Enjoy:

[www.rodbuilding.org]

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I WIN!!!! HAHAHAH!! Everyone else is wrong and I'm right I love it!! OK seriously > that is NOT exotic cork, that is some sort of styrofoam which DOES NOT!!! get glued up with regular rod building glues and adhesives. There are several posts form teh past 9 months in this forum you should search the archives for. So the problem you are having is nothing that you are doing wrong, it's the product that you are using.

Harold,
When working with Syncork, and building up a handle ON A ROD with individual rings, I make a point to leave the interior of each ring with a ROUGH hole. The rough hole on the interior of the ring allows for a better mechanical grip with the glue.
Syncork is a plastic based material that is semi non compatible with most of our typical rod building adhesives.
I also use 80 grit paper to rough up each side of each cork ring, prior to building the grip ON THE ROD.

Do Not build the grip off of the rod, or you run into a very good chance of breaking the bond of the rings, sometime between initial glue up, through machining and final attachment to the blank.

But, normally, if the steps listed above there are next to no failures with this grip style. Just be aware, that the material needs to be handled DIFFERENTLY than genuine cork, or burled, or rubberized cork.

Be safe and secure.

Roger

Billy nailed the problem.