Time to replace an 18 rpm motor for the mixer. Does anyone have a source? Having a hard time finding one right now. Thanks in advance.

Ray Mazza
Utica NY

Flex Coat offers them, so any Flex Coat dealer should be able to help you out.

..............

Ray,
I just picked up 4 of them at my local surplus store.
These were 20 rpm DC motors that use 24 volts dc. Then, pick up a $3 plug in power supply to supply the power to the motor and you are set.

If you haven't tried DC motors before, check them out.

You can easily find them on the internet. You can find them at surplus internet sites, as well as some of the big @#$%& sites.
You can also find them at many surplus stores found in various cities.

For example:
[www.surpluscenter.com]
Or - [www.surpluscenter.com]

Or - AC motors:
[www.surpluscenter.com]

Note:
Do not use a motor like this one:
[www.surpluscenter.com]
This one is a shaded pole motor and if you read the fine print, it is 1 minute on and 10 minutes off. Leave it on for more than that, it will get so hot that it may start a fire:



The nice thing about DC motors is that they tend to be nice and compact - but have plenty of power.


Several different motors that would work well for your application on this page:
[www.surplustraders.net]


Take care
Roger

This may or may not help, but thinking outside the box, you can find low RPM Dayton motors on @#$%& very reasonable. I'm sure they're more torque than you need, but I just bought a new in the box Dayton 20 RPM 115Volt motor for $10 plus shipping, and they have more for sale. I ran a shop that used these little motors. We had two of them the oldest of which was used for 20 years and still running.

Seeing the cost of the rod wrappers I decided to build my own using one of these Dayton motors and wired it with a momentary foot switch (works as long as the peddle is pressed - stops on release) foot switch to keep both hands free. It only gives me 1 revolution every three seconds, but it will have plenty of torque and that's a perfect pace for me to do careful work. I priced the epoxy mixers today at $36 + shippping. I'm thinking about using one of the Dayton motors for that as well to mix a bubble free mix, with long term dependability. I don't pretend to know much about the rod wrapping game, but poor men have poor ways! and sometimes those ways are cheaper and better. Hope that helps. Blessings

Thanks for the ideas. Brent, send me the link if you don't mind. I couldn't find anything like that at the @#$%& site. I'm looking at several ideas for my epoxy mixer replacement on the cheap!
[email protected] om



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2011 11:19PM by Ray Mazza.

Brent,
If you are using the dayton motors, just be sure that if you are wanting to use them for continuous use, you are not using shaded pole motors, unless you have a fan on them to keep them cool.

Otherwise, if the motors are shaded pole motors, they will get very very hot.

Take care
REW

I picked up 4 of these same motors from a local surplus store for $4 each.
I picked up some .33 micro farad 200 volt capacitors at the same time.
I checked them all out today and with the .33 micro farad capacitor across the starting leads the motor starts and runs just fine.

Capacitor start motors are great, because they start very well but they run very cool.

These are 8 rpm motors, but work very well for a dryer motor.

REW

[www.surplusgizmos.com]

Thanks REW, caution noted. I don't know allot about motors. These are just ones I had experience with and knew to be reliable. The motor I purchased was not advertised as a pole motor (although there were pole motors advertised, and I wondered what the application might be for those). This one has the built in gearbox so it doesn't work too hard. It did give instruction to ground the case of the motor which I did. I tested the motor / switch without the ground just to verify it worked and there was no voltage present on the case. That must just be a precaution incase something goes wrong.

Brent,
The distinguishing mark on a shaded pole motor is a single piece of heavy wire that has been wrapped around the armature or center of the motor
This heavy piece of wire, creates a "shaded pole" for starting the motor and it is very effective.

The down side is that electricity is flowing through this wire any time that the motor has power applied to it. The result of the electricity flowing through the wire is that it creates a "toaster" or heating effect on the motor.

Really nothing wrong with that - except for the fact that it heats, heats, and heats the motor some more if the motor is run continuously.

If you want to run a shaded pole motor in continuous mode, you need to supply a way to get rid of th is heat that is being generated by the shaded pole wire.

You can use a separate fan to blow air against the motor, or if there is an extended shaft on the back of the motor, you can fit this extended shaft with a fan to cool the motor. The use of a fan on an extended shaft on the motor is the best way to use a shaded pole motor in continuous mode.

For your particular case, just put your hand or finger by or on the motor and check for heating. As long as the motor is near room temperature, you are fine. If the motor is getting too hot to touch as you use it, place a fan by the motor to blow air on it to keep it cool.

I have in the past used several shaded pole motors for drying when I was just starting to build rods. I had a small 110volt ac muffin fan that I would place next to the row of drying motors and use the one fan to keep several motors cool.

Take care and be "COOL"

Roger

That particular motor (and ad) list it as being a continuous duty shadepole motor.

Roger, good info about dc motors. Thinking of replacing 4 rpm ac motor with 18 rpm dc motor. All power suppliers I've seen have a connector at the end.....do you just cut off and attach the wires directly to the motor, or do they make power source with 2 wires at the end? Thanks, Steven

Steve,
I generally always cut any wire connectors off of the end of the motor and either wire the motor directly, or use my own set of connectors. There are many sources for connectors, if you want to use your own. Just pick up a matching connector pair that makes sense for your installation, if you want a connector.

Also, if you want to be able to reverse the motor direction, you can always use a switch that will flip the input voltage to the motor. Then, if you want to slow down a DC motor, you can use a chopper style motor controller, or you can use a simple variable voltage power supply or even a simple variable resistor.

The chopper style power supply gives you the best low speed torque, but sometimes you g et a bit of a buzz from your motor due to the cycling of the chopper supply at low duty cycles for slower speed.

Take care
Roger

Guys. I would certainly bow to the professionals, but I just ran my 110 V Dayton gear motor for a timed 10 minutes continuous, and touching all parts and surfaces of the motor and gearbox I could barely detect the motor had even been on. I even presented it with load on the output shaft and it runs strong and cool. Its hard to argue with results. Maybe the key words are "continuous duty".

Brent,
Do you have the Dayton gear motor number available? i.e. is there a motor number printed on the motor somewhere?
Could you take a picture of the motor and post it in the picture section of the forum.

Lots of gear motors on the market are continuous duty motors. No problem with continuous duty motors.

The problem is if you use intermittent duty motors - particularly shaded pole motors - without a cooling fan for hours at a time.

When continuous duty, we are talking about running it for 20-100 HOURS at a time.

In particular many motors that run drum dryers in shops that are building a lot of rods, turn their motors on Monday morning and don't turn the motor off for the next three months. They are always adding or taking a rod off of the dryer, and turn the motor off, only long enough to remove a rod, and add another rod to the dryer.

If you have the motor number, I can check it out as to its style of manufacture.

But, bottom line - if you have a motor that works as a dryer motor for you, it doesn't matter what it is called, or who made it. If it works, doesn't overheat and doesn't start a fire, enjoy the motor because it is certainly doing the job for you.


Take care
Roger

Hey Roger, I took some photos. I'll have to figure out how to upooad them to the site.... That might take a few minutes. I did get the information you requested: Model 2Z808, 20 RPM, 1 PH, 15.2 IN LBS Torque, 115 Volts, .48 Amps, 60 HZ, Continuous Duty, Impedance protected, Dayton Electric MFG. Company. You'll notice I mounted it on a rather heavy wood frame for strength and to preserve alignment (forgive my messy workbench. Its essentially complete, but I'm working on setting up a decated area.) That was another reason to go with the 20 RPM motor... Though I'm meticulous about vertical and straight and square, but since it is wood and incase there's some unseen slight misalignment (a small fraction of a degree multiplies over the length of a 6 foot rod - good thing they're flexible!), then you don't want a high RPM motor in those conditions. I'd much rather have the metal $400 model with bearings. I spent my career designing high end fixtures for Aerospace, but in a worldwide recession the high-zoot wrapper is just not reality. I'll get those photos on as soon as I can. Thanks, and thanks for sharing your expertise. You obviously know allot about motors and we can all benefit from your knowledge.

Roger, Photos are posted under "Equipment"

Brent,
This is an excellent motor and will do the job for you just fine.

It is however, a shaded pole motor as described in the specifications, and are visible in the catalog picture by the large copper wire that is running around the armature.

Although your motor will do just fine and will do an excellent job of turning your rod, you will likely want to consider adding a fan in the area of the motor to keep the motor cool, when you run it for 30s of 30s of hours.

Over time, I have no doubt, that if you run it for a long time, the motor will get warmer than what you really want to have happen to the motor.

[www.grainger.com]

When you run into heating problems with the motor, simply take a little muffin fan - somewhat like this one and set it on the table blowing on the motor to keep the temperature down:

[www.grainger.com]

You can find small fans nearly anywhere, so any small fan just to keep a bit of air moving across the motor will do a good job to cool the motor and keep it from overheating.

-------------

Note:

Here are a couple further definitions from the "Hurst" motor site:

Q—What is meant by the temperature rise of a motor and how does it apply?

A—It is the difference between the measured temperature of the motor winding and the temperature of the air surrounding the motor. Electrical insulation systems are limited in the degree of temperature that they can withstand. Standard motors have Class A insulation systems which are rated at 105?C for the hottest-spot temperature. A hot-spot allowance must be made for the difference between the measured temperature of the winding and the actual temperature of the hottest-spot within the winding, usually 5? to 15?C depending upon the type of motor construction. The sum of the temperature rise, the hot-spot allowance, and the temperature of the ambient must not exceed the temperature rating of the insulation.

Q—What is the minimum operating temperature of a standard motor?

A—When a motor is started the operating temperature will be the same as the ambient temperature. Frictional losses in the bearings and gearing increase as the temperature of the lubricants decreases due to the change in lubricant viscosity. This change is progressive although not uniform) over the entire temperature range so that there is no fixed point of demarcation. Practically, when the torque of the motor has been reduced by frictional losses to equal that required by the load, the minimum temperature has been reached.

Q—What does “Impedance Protected” mean?

A—Many motors in the sub fractional horsepower sizes can be designed with enough impedance (opposition to A.C. current) in the windings to limit the locked rotor currents to values that do not cause the motor to overheat beyond a safe temperature.

------------------
Summary,
You have a fine motor that is used by many folks for a myriad of applications.
If used without cooling, it should be used in an intermittent mode of operation to limit the heat rise of the m otor caused by the split phase winding around the motor.

But, if you add a very small cooling fan - A muffin or similar 3-5 inch fan will work fine - then you can run the fan forever as long as you keep the cooling air running by the motor armature to keep the temperature from rising.

Enjoy and it will do a fine job for you.

Roger

p.s.
As I said earlier, I have several of these very motors in my dryer box that I used for a long time to dry rods. I also have a 4 inch muffin fan in the same box, that I put at the end of the row of motors to blow air over the motors and keep the temperature down and it worked very well.