Hello .

I've got 2 MHX that need Micro Top, but with tube 6,5" and 7,5" .

I think Acid Rod could provide the 6,5" (SIC Ring Stainless Tops - Black Finish Flanged & Braced Frame with Deep Pressed Rings)

But for the 7,5" , is there any Micro top available ? ( Braced Frame )

Option 1 : Splitting a 7,5" tube ? And wrap it ?
Option 2: Wrapping a single guide ( LSG/ KTSG ... other ) ?

One way or another, I should try both options:)

Any good advice?

D.

Didier,
The third option is to simply put a guide on the rod that fits the tube. If the tip ring is larger than the last micro, no big deal. It just makes it easier for snap and leaders to work through the tip. A conventional tip is also tougher and holds up to stress better and getting banged around.

Take care
Roger

Splitting the 7.0 Acid Rod has would be easy enough and it owuld not take much at all to open it up to fit the blank.

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
A conventional tip is also tougher and holds
> up to stress better and getting banged around.
>
> Take care
> Roger


What data do you have to support this as a fact?

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Alex,
You have to ask?
Roger

Can you just wrap on a single foot micro and use that??

Thank you .

Roger , yes the third option exists indeed .I know that some are doing it very well.
I think it would be sad to use such a big and heavy top with such micro rings ( #3 and #3,5)
I think it is worthwhile to seek a better solution yet. But a solution that is up to the task .

Mike. Yes, That's what I think . And it would be hefty . But heavier ?

John , the option 2 , this would be the lightest . But would it be strong enough ? I remember reading that it really was not pretty...

I must have the rings in hand to"see" and better apreciate.

D.

Didier what are you using this rod for?

Is non stretch braided line intended for use?

Is it a spinning rod or casting rod with conventional guides on top or spiral? Surprisingly the make a difference in design and requirements for bracing.

Is there any requirement for line connections to clear?

This is a common situation with scrape, punch, grass and flip sticks for task specific bass rods.. I have a lot of these micro rods in tournament use and use larger rings with tubes that fit. I have a huge collection of folded braced micro tops that failed during tournament use on this type of rods many with split tubes..

If you are building for tournament bass guys ask them if they use the "javeline throw" task specific rod.

I recently discovered this new techniqie when I got back 9 micro rods in two weeks with folded tip tops! Rings out and frames folded back.

One of the guys partner ratted out on him and told me how the tips were being ruined.

Throw a expensive lure or tungsten wt - hang it up - the rod has a lifetime warranty - they want theri expensive lure back - move over the hang up - take reel off - throw the rod like a spear or javelin to recover lure - ruin tip top or break rod - take it back and get another one!

Many of the current production micro rods on the market will move to larger rings with more substantial bracing on tip tops for next years models to improve durability for this type of rod. A single foot regular micro guide is not a vialble solution to a tip top in rods in heavy duty service.

They are really used to the full limits of their design - For a tip tip with a large tube the weight difference of the ring is not significant if it fails during use.

Roger what is your history with micro guides and tip tops on blanks with tip size larger than 6.5? What size tip top is needed to pass swivels and what size micro guides do you use for those builds? I aslo think you have exclusive access to micro snaps and micro swivels if you have some that will pass through a 3.0 - 3.5 micro guide.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2011 11:21AM by Bill Stevens.

Bill,
Of course I don't have access to a swivel that will pass through a 3.0 micro.
But I have found that often, when a person is quickly reeling back they sometimes don't stop reeling at the tip. But the first micro is a few inches from the tip, so with the clank of th e swivel hitting the tip, the angler stops before hitting the first micro.

Take care
Roger

Roger does the "clank" improve sensitivity?

Didier another "test" - Saturday morning.

My earlier post said no micro guide would function for a tip top.

The spear throwing Bubba just left with another trial - seven foot punch rod for grass mat work.

He wants a micro tip on a conventional all on top rod - we negotiated

He promised not to use the spear throw trick

I installed a Fuji BLDBAG4.5UJ Heavy Duty, Micro Guide

This guide style is the beast that Billy Vivona has been using on boat rods.

It is much stronger than any normal micro frame and may get the job done..

He will use the rod this weekend - we will see

Roger,

Yes I do. I'd really like to see the testing results to compare notes.

Show your cards and I will show some of the labratory results I have as well.

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Alex,
I certainly agree that casting results will show better results with a smaller and lighter tip.
No argument there at all.

The reason that I have simply suggested the much tougher conventially well braced tips, is that I have seen too many of the smalll tips wiped out by the users of the rods.

Yes, I also agree that if a rod is treated with respect, the micro tip will hold up just fine.

Unfortunately, too many users sometimes lead with their rod tip and the tip suffers as a rsult.

So, whenever building a rod for a client, I will ask them their preference, explaining the casting advantage of the small tip, but the durablity of the larger tip. Then they choose.

Sometimes they will go with the smaller tip, sometimes with the tougher tip.

Take care
Roger

Roger -

We aren't talking casting results. We're talking durability based on your original comment " A conventional tip is also tougher and holds up to stress better and getting banged around" and now "the durablity of the larger tip".

How is a micro tip less durable than a larger tip? Or phrased opposite - How is a conventional tip more durable than a micro tip?

If you are basing it on experience, help me with the numbers on the sample group you used to formulate this opinion.

Example: How many rods with micro tips do you have in service today? What is your rate of return for micro tips vs size 6 or larger tips? What % has failed regarding frame design? What % have had ring failures?

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Hello .

Thank for your comments .

Bill , This is for a MHX FS904 7'6' ' , tip is 2,91mm-->7,5" . Blank weight=96,17g=33,39oz . My RDA : Power=865g =30,51 OZ , TA=56° .
It will be a spinning use , with braid up to 20lb .Reel :Stella 5000 SW . No leader ( at least , no knot connection )
Use in salt water , from boat ( rod holder only) for throwing soft paddle tail with lead head up to 2,5 oz .

No situation with "scrape, punch, grass and flip sticks for task specific bass rods" .No "javeline throw" !!!
Before knowing the Micro guide's concept , i wanted to wrap those following guide LCSG 16m/ 10 / 8 / 6 / + LDBSG 5 / 4,5/ 4,5/4,5/4,5/ +MNST 5
I correct : the running guide will be #4 LDBSG , and not 3/3,5 as mentioned above .
And i would like to use a "microwave " guide as stripper ( if i can get some ) ...the 25/6 mmm ....

Casting distance is needed , but my elbow is asking for lightness and balance. Sensitivity is also very important , so I'm hunting unnecessary weight.

D.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2011 02:57PM by didier stephan.

One thing, if the angler is going to use his rod to gt back his lure, I don't care what tip you have on it. Yes some might last a bit longer, but it will not take long for any tip to be damaged or the blank itself with the angler poking away at his lure hung up in the roks or whatever else they might get hung up in.

Micro builds that have a size of 4-6mm I use the American Nanolite NBRL-MT tips, they have a #4 ring and they come in Chrome, Hard Chorme, and Black.
For tips that are bigger then 6 tube size I use Fuji H/D Micro tops BMNAT they come in tube size 5 - 7, and have a 5mm Ring, but only comes in BLACK !!!!

Pimp My Rod and Reel
Richard W. Schmitz

Didier my response to:

"I correct : the running guide will be #4 LDBSG , and not 3/3,5 as mentioned above And i would like to use a "microwave " guide as stripper ( if i can get some ) ...the 25/6 mmm ....

Casting distance is needed , but my elbow is asking for lightness and balance. Sensitivity is also very important , so I'm hunting unnecessary

1. The Microwave Guide is currently available only in the 30/8 - it will work quite well for your use. It comes with a transition tall seven ring guide that will allow your to use the runners of your choice. The transition guive will more match the K series durability mentioned in number 3 below. I have not built a spinning rod using the Microwave matched with the heavy duty micro guides as runners.

2. I would consider a 5.0 ring locked tip top with a tube - the durability would be necessary with minimum penalty in weight. If you opt for splitting a tube or using a single foot guide instead be sure to take a spare.

3. I assume the BLDBSG heavy duty is the one you refer to in your post - if you really desire to reduce overall weight the K series 4.0 in stainless or titanium are considerably lighter. I use them on heavy power bass rods but do not know if they will be strong enough for your specific use.

Hello .

Thank Bill for your help .

Last summer , I choosed the LDBSG #4, instead the T-KTSG#4 because at that time , I was not very convinced of their strength or their effectiveness against the wind knot.
Now I think the T-KTSG # 4 would do the job . And they are lighter .T-KTSG#4 = 0.05g / LDBSG #4=0.093g

Well , i've several order to make , and i will have all those guide in my hand and make my mind .

Thank all for your help .

D.

Hello .

I have the PMCST (Silicon Carbide Micro Tops) ring size 4,5 . (With a tube 5/64 , on weight 0.2g)

With the T-KTSG size 4 and 3,5 , i think it match . So i will try to split one , to fit it to a 7.5'' top.

But with the T-KTSG size 3 , perhaps a single guide might be acceptable?

Thanks .

D.