I built a rod 2 years ago and the epoxy is peeling. Why? I used Permagloss on the blank and flexcoat lite on the wraps. Both are coming off in various places. Can I alcohol it and reapply to fix?

Jeff,
If it looks like the photos I recently posted under guide wraps, then I've been told that it's water under wraps.
I stripped all the guide wraps and underwraps and rewrapped them.

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble.It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Mark Twain
John in Wethersfield, CT

Did you prep the blank before putting on the permagloss I always give the blank at least a fine pad sanding just to give it some grip

Bill - willierods.com

Alcohol is not going to help. Did you do ANYTHING to the blank before applying the Perma Gloss? if the rod had a finish on it before you applied the Perma Gloss, is it coming off the blank with the Perma Gloss?

I agree with Phil,
It is really not a good thing to wipe a rod with with alchol before applying finish.
Alchol and finish really don't mix very well at all.

Take care
Roger

I would suggest now is strip the guides off. Scrap the old finish off. Clean the rod completely of all finish. Then sand lightly with 400 - 500 grit wet paper. Dry well. very well. Then color if you want and put two coats of permagloss on Let dry a couple of days then re wrap the guides.

Bill - willierods.com

Bill
Perfect repair receipe.

Roger

Roger

If it is pealing he did some thing wrong

Some times you eat the bear -- some times it eats you LOL

Bill - willierods.com

Is this a rebuild or am I missing something. Why the permagloss in the first place?

Harold

Hmmm

Jeff a lot of things can be wrong with this as the fellas have dictated here. Bill has the fix how ever. But in my experience dealing with any finish work is "Prep" as you said before this rod took two years to fail in various areas on the rod. Prep is everything when dealing with finish work and as we progress with our craft we tend to get better at it ...in some case's we might keep doing the same thing because it still works for us. But it may not be the correct step in Prepping for your final finish. I believe at this point without seeing the actual failure and with your story thus far, your prep work was the culprit!. Adhesion was the factor here as you pointed out, the folks here will most likely give you several ideas on what might have happened. The question here is to your self....go through your process step by step and question each one till you feel you may have found which process may be were you missed something. Rule these out before you go to the next step, which will be the products you used. That's my best advice at this point.

My off the top guess here is exactly what the fellas are going with here and that is Prep< If your are useing a clean blank (Slate) no finish it still requires some Prep atleast a wipe down, or a possible light scuff to help promote adhesion on the surface. (If you are useing a refurbished blank one you may have cleaned and cleard away your self, the prep on this is very crucial and must be clean of all the old finish,primer and what ever they used on that blank) Trouble shooting can be easy in identifying were you may have gone wrong. Look at the area in question.....did it fail from the blank it self then from the epoxy ? if so then adhesion was your culprit. The reason I say this ....is becaus you mentioned that the whole rod was not in failure. Wich tells me your products used may not be the culprit but wrather your Prep<

Thats my two cents of this hope it helps you out and good luck !

Rick H.

rwheil@msn.com

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FWIW - I wipe down new blanks before I wrap them. I have often had customers handling blanks and I want them clean before I wrap. I've never had a problem caused by that. I also wipe off the excess Sulky spray adhesive used in my transfer decals with alcohol before a coat of finish. No choice there - it is a step that has to happen. Again - not a problem.


roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with Phil,
> It is really not a good thing to wipe a rod with
> with alchol before applying finish.
> Alchol and finish really don't mix very well at
> all.
>
> Take care
> Roger

Roger, I'm confused.

Re: Surface Prep
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: March 21, 2010 05:31PM

Mark,
Some folks wiill disagree, but I use the blue masking tape - light tack - to remove any dust or other things that might happen to have gotten on the wraps.

Before every wrapping the rod, I do use a good wipe down with denatured alcohol. I have never had any side effects from wiping the blanks with this before ever starting the guide wrapping.

Take care
Roger

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

Woodsman,
The problem that I had on a recent build was a finish issue on a big rod.

The problem was that I had had an issue with the dryer when I was drying my first bigger rod. As a result of the dryer problem, I had the first coat of finish on the butt wraps. The finish had only been drying for about 3 hours. It wasn't tacky, but it certainly wasn't rock hard.

Since I was against a shipping deadline, I used a scraper to scrape off the ridges caused by the dryer incident. I then used fine sandpaper to do a scuff on the finish and to further level the finish from the earlier issue.

Remember the 3 hour drying time on the first coat of finish.

Now comes the mistake-
With the first coat of finish, only three hours into the drying cycle - not tacky but not rock hard, I did a wipe of the wrap with DNA to wipe off the sanding dust.
Big mistake.
The problem was that the finish was not hard, and the DNA was partially absorbed by the partially coat of finish. After rechecking for the smooth fishing, I proceeded to apply a 2nd coat - --
Major league problem. Due to the really "entrapment" of the DNA in the partially hardened finish, I had fish eyes all over the butt wrap. What part of ugly was this situation.
Fortunately, after letting the 2nd coat set up just a bit, I was able to work the finish a bit, and was eventually able to level and clear the finish coat for a perfect finish.

My point was this - DNA is just fine as long as a blank is cleaned with the DNA and wiped down and dried 100% so that there is NO trace of DNA left on the surface of the blank BEFORE applying the finish.
I have done it on many rods with no issue.

But, if you happen to put finish over DNA that has not completely evaporated, then you hit the big snag that I did.

The reason that I posted the comment was that I was still in recovery mode from the recent incident.

It was just one of those days, where these rods, seemed to have an attitude and just didn't want to get built.
I won't go into the details of the issues. Suffice to say, that if a problem could go wrong with every part of the build on a set of rods - this set did exhibit those problems.

It had been a very long time since I had had any issues on any rods at all. So, when it seemed that I was just hitting one issue after another - I had been rather peaked out because of it.

DNA = fine if 100% evaporated.
DNA - not fine if there is any DNA left in the liquid state before application of finish.

Take care
Roger

This was a total rebuild. I stripped the rod to glass. Painted with Krylon Plasti-kote, sanded,alcoholed,Permagloss,wrapped, Flex-Coat Lite. I wore rubber gloves when handelling the rod to keep oil off. I'll try to attach photos later today. Maybe not enough sanding on the paint but the epoxy is also coming off the wraps.

[www.rodbuilding.org]
This should take you to photo page.

Is that the coat of Perma Gloss peeling from the blank, or is it epoxy? Not sure if it was the alcohol or something else, but there is a definite adhesion problem between the top coat and the one below it and I suspect it is the one below as the Flexcoat product has been around quite a while without hearing of these kinds of issues.

When you apply a solvent to another coating (Perma Gloss, epoxy, etc.) you are taking a chance that the coating may absorb some of the solvent and be very slow to release it, if at all. As the peeling is on both the Perma Gloss and the Tiger Wrap epoxy, I suspect the alcohol wipe is the cause. We may never know for sure.

Yes that is the Permagloss peeling from the blank. The epoxy over the thread wrap seems to have bubbled and peeled. The epoxy is also yellowed and has cracked at the guide feet.

Jeff, I remember seeing pics of that rod. Very nice. I hope you find the problem.

Roger - I was just wondering if you had a reason to change your method. I always wipe new blanks down with a paper towel, dampened with alcohol. Then I buff them down with the towel. So far, no problems.

Chuck

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane