So on some rods I see that the 1st - striper guide is sometimes bigger like a #8 and some are all like #4 or 5 to the tip, I will be buliding a 7'11" rod to be used with a low profile reel and 65lb braid what system would be best ?????? I see Gloomis uses a bigger striper guide and some don't ?????? also I see some rods have 13-14 guides ??? do U need more with micros ????



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2011 12:54PM by RICHARD WILLIAM SCHMITZ.

Richard,

The butt guide is up to you. If you think about it, the first guide on a casting rod is the level wind guide, and they are usually about 4mm or so guides. You can go straight to micros if you want, but you need to push the butt guide out to 24-27", possibly more to avoid sharp angles with the butt guide. For a more traditional spacing, you can start with a 6mm or 8mm double foot guide at the but and use a size or two more before the micro running guides.

There is no need to use more guides than you would with more traditional sized guides. The line will touch the blank, and may even drop below if you use L (in feet) or L+1 guides. Personally, I find the line path I get from using L+2 guides more aesthetically pleasing. Even then, the line lightly touches the blank between guides. Occasionally, you may need more or fewer guides. Let your static test be your guide. If your goal is to keep the line off of the blank, it will take quite a few guides.

If you search the forum, this topic has come up often, and there is a lot of good reading. Hope this helps a little.

Joe

Richard,
How are you planning on using the rod, I mean slack line retrieve like when flipping and pitching or a tight line retrieve. From what the blank is, I am guessing it will be for flipping and pitching. I would suggest doing a spiral wrap instead of conventional.
Mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2011 01:28PM by Mike Sledden.

Mike Sledden Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Richard,
> How are you planning on using the rod, I mean
> slack line retrieve like when flipping and
> pitching or a tight line retrieve. From what the
> blank is, I am guessing it will be for flipping
> and pitching. I would suggest doing a spiral wrap
> instead of conventional.
> Mike


Open water casting with crank baits

Joe is correct ! IMOP

Let your static test be your guide and let the user of the rod be your testament to your build. The user is going to know how far he he is going to let this rod load with stress when playing the type of fish hes fishing for. If your principal is to have the line mimic the rod to the best of its function. Then add the guides accordingly. Like discussed before these are very light weight guides and one here or one there to satisfy the principal behind the user of the rod is not an issue. I have even invited a few customers over for my static, and load test to see how they are seeing the rod load during a landing of a fish. Everyone is different and has different ideas behind there fishing technique. Remember your building it for the USER AKA customer. I have built 10 of these all Salmon Rods 7 six Croix's and LGlass using the micro guides. The have all caught fish and the customers have all been completely satisfied with the performance of these builds in casting, retrieve and free-spool. Landing a fish with there new rod was a new experience for them. Don't be afraid to let your customer help dictate or input the construction of their rod.... its an experience you will enjoy and they will feel even more attached to the rod after putting there own input into it!

Hope this will help your build Happy Wraps !

Rick H.

rwheil@msn.com

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Micros on top. As many as you need based on testing - buy twelve and hold on to extras for repairs.

Your question can't be answered without knowing reel position, blank model and guide model/sizes you are using.

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I would do them all on top and use all micros.

I vote slow spiral: 6, 5, 4, then 3s to the tip.

Joe,
I know that other respected rod builders have said this but I think that the statement that "the first guide is the line guide on the reel" is very misleading. The line guide on the reel moves which results in it in effect being much larger.

Emory,

Most of mine only move during the retrieve to lay the line on the spool. I'll have to check if a couple of my older round reels move the level wind during free spool, but the low profile reels I have do not.

Joe

Exactly Joe they don't move till you start reeling. Therefore it don't matter what size you start with becouse the level wind tames the line right out the reel.

Pawl guides on low profile fresh water and smaller baitcasting reels used for bass and inshore fishing, with the exception of a very few are stationary round ring guides. One reel used for flipping does not even have a conventional pawl but a tilt bar. Where the the pawl stops on the retrieve is where thay stay during the period the lure is outbound. A real sneaky long throw crankbait angler will soon learn that a second spent on center spool alignment of the pawl prior to throw will acheive a sligntly longer throw on any rod. Most bass and inshore anglers who spend the money on new micro rods do not use reels with moving bar type pawls like the Shakespere 5000. Take a look a the reels used by todays bass anglers - Curado, Smoke, Core, Calais, MG50, Revo, Johnny Morris and many others. A micro rod even the ones using all same size micor guides on the top will perform quite well for pitching, flipping, roll casts and even long throw moving bait seach pattern work with the stationary pawl at either extreme of the reel spool.

By the way, the pawl issue is the sale closer when showing the angler a micro rod for the first time.

Hand him a micro rod with reel in place

Ask him if he thinks it will work? The answers most of the time will be absolutely not!

Why not? Answer - That 50 # braid will not go through those little guides!.

Then ask - Can you teach me something - Would yu point at the first guide on the rod? They will point at the butt guide.

Then say please think carefully about what I am going to ask you. Can yuu give me any reason that any guide on the rod needs to be any larger than this - Point at butt guide.

Blank look - and then I guess not!

Then tell them to chunk it!

Normally the next thing you hear is a very common expletive (HS!)

I want this one - Take his money.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2011 10:00AM by Bill Stevens.

And really sneaky people in casting contests will have even better solutions for what to do with the level wind pawl…………..

Mike Harris: i do not have a baitcaster reel with a level wind on it.

Mike this could turn into a Friday Funnies - where is the Ivory Tunnel Poker Man?

The guys like Farmer are not sneaky - they are brutal beasts with spools that free wheel for 10 minutes on test

Ceramics Mag Side Plate and Rodket Fuel to the rescue.!

Pawl Pocket Job!

The 6500 Shakespere Rocket European with the pawl removed goes over 800 feet easily !

The pawl was in the box for the reel I showed at the show.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2011 05:01PM by Bill Stevens.

Emory,

I checked, and my old Millionaires and Garcias move the pawl in free spool, but none of my post 2000 reels do. Personally, I tend toward a step down spiral approach on most of my micro builds (Yes Bill ;), even on my tip down rods, but it has more to do with the geometry of my boat and the way I position my boat than anything else.), but likely would consider an even larger butt guide on rods for the older wider spool round reels.

Oh, and Bill, the Rocket Fuel, at least the yellow version (I'm sure that reel uses the red version), doesn't like the weather north of the Mason-Dixon line between October and April, longer for some.

Joe