I'm sure this has been asked but can't find the info.
The new K series guides have such a forward angle to them that when I place the choker and then run the line from my reel spool, the first guide (stripper) is a mile away from the spool lip. Does his mean I now have to use a size #30 as my first guide and not the #25 I've always used in the past? Or, can I just line them up to match my other rods w/ the exact same set-up except for the guides?
Thanks,
Todd

If you can't get the height, then you may have to use a larger ring size. The line doesn't care about the frame, but keeping a straight line path is helpful.

.............

I'm not sure if even w/ a #30 I can get the guide within the 18-22" distance. I'm using a wide spool reel. So, I guess that distance changes a bit. But, how far is too far?

The only way to find out is to try it.

..........

Unfortunately, I don't have all the required sizes to try the scenarios.
But, I can see that I'm going to have to start w/ a #30 (by using my caliper and the Fuji spec sheet). However, as they line up, it looks like the 30, 25, 20, 12, runners. But, the amount of weight this adds is troubling. And the expense of the titanium frames (to reduce the weight) at these sizes is worse. If I cut out the 25, I have 17 1/2"s btw the 30 & 20. Seems too much to me. But, the height of the K series guides don't seem conducive to this technique.
Nobody else having this dilemma?

Todd,
Actually I just finished wrapping and coating two rods with the K series guides.

Yes, no question about it, there is a considerable rake or forward tilt on all of the K series guides to allow the guides do their loop shedding thing for which they have been designed.

I simply went with my standard 25,16, 10, 7, and 6 runners to the size 6 tip and the rods came out very well.

I put the guides in virtually the same position as if I were doing a conventional guide alignment. The difference, was the actual positioning of the guides with respect to conventional measurements.

Conventional guides have a near vertical ring when placed on a rod. The K series guides have a ring angle that is close to 30 or 40 degrees. So, the placement difference was that I aligned the guide with the bottom of the ring rather than the top of the ring.

For the large size 25 guide, this meant that the guide was moved up the rod about 1/2 inch from what a conventional vertical guide would have been placed. The same thing for the smaller K series guides. Since the smaller guides have a smaller ring diameter, the difference in placement was less, but still up to an 1/8th or a 1/4 inch further up the rod, depending on the particular rod.


I was worried also, about the tilt of the guides as it might affect casting. In reality, from a straight ruler line of the reel to either the top or bottom of the stripper guide, there is about a relative 20% reduction in the virtual height of the guide. But, I decided to tape up the guides and do some test casting before I migrated to a larger guide. I found that - the particular blank that I was using and for which I had previous data, that the K series guides in the same size as when wrapped with conventional guides, gave me very similar performance. So, I just stayed with my initial guide selection and I believe that the clients will be well satisfied with the rods as well as the K guides and their use with 6 lb braided line which is like fishing with spider webs.

Good luck
Roger

I'm sorry, I don't understand.

Well this has been my concern about the K guides from the start is that we don't have the height options we had with the combination of the HV and SV and MN guides. But since the HV and K heights are close Fuji feels that the HV is no longer needed, But mixing K's with SV doesn't look right. It seems that Fuji has forced us into a narrow list of options now.

You must test cast the rod in order to determine if your gather guide is in a good position or not. Don't let the fact that the line isn't touching during layout that you can't move it closer or farther away from the face of reel. One problem with the K guides is the placement of the braces on the double side being so far up on the ring, get a wind knot and this can catch in the crotch between the frame and brace and cut the line right off.

Todd,
Since you have the Fuji spec. sheet, you are aware that there is a big difference the guide height between the 30 and 25 (2.362" & 1.732")
I thought that I read that the 30 would be considered a high frame guide

I have a set of BKLAG's(single foot and alconite ring), and the weight of a 30mm is .24oz and the 25mm is .14oz.
What is that, 1/10th of an oz? ...and it will be low on the rod

Considering that you have a wide spool reel, have you considered using the angle of the spool arbor to set up the choker guide?
Would this cause too much line rub on the bottom of the stripper guide?
Maybe a compromise between the two?

"mixing K's with SV doesn't look right" I have built a number of rods with a combo of KWSG's and MNSG's and they look great better yet they perform great too.

On my first K build I spent a lot of time setting up the guide placement (tweaking and test casting, over and over again). The K's in the smaller ring size have longer feet tip to tip and I thought/saw that the natural bend of the blank was being altered by the wide feet of the k's (up in the tip section of the blank's bend). My solution was to use K's as reduction guides and MN's as my running guides.

Greg,
That is fine to mix the K and the MN, but doesn't that somewhat defeat the purpose of using the K guides in the first place. i.e. using the double sided, angled K guides to shed loops and wind knots from the guides?

Roger

I have done a dozen UL rod builds now with the K guides and using the new guide concept and have found that the stripper guides are moving further away but for some reason i am finding around a 5% increase in casting distance with the benefit of reduced tangling at the top end.

I am matching 7ft or 6'6" 4-8lb blanks to 1000 size Shimano reels with the K guides and 6lb line and am having the best results i've ever had. Loven it.

Stuart, what is your recommended guide setup for that rod? I'm fixing to start some exactly like yours. Thanks
Bill

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Greg,
> That is fine to mix the K and the MN, but doesn't
> that somewhat defeat the purpose of using the K
> guides in the first place. i.e. using the double
> sided, angled K guides to shed loops and wind
> knots from the guides?
>
> Roger


I guess it does up in the tip section.

Personally I haven't experienced issues with tangles in the tip. I'm sure i will now.

After looking at fuji's super slow motion video I feel that the striper guide is where the line "flips over the guide" and the windknot / tangles occurs.

I would have used single foot guides to keep the blank's bend as natural as possible; however, but builds all required the utmost strength(tuna casting rods) so mn's were my only choice.

Greg,
I believe that your tangle assessment is correct. The client for whom I am building these rods, indicated that he has had knots and tangles on only the first two guides on the rod. He indicated that the most problems have been on the 2nd guide, not the stripper guide. I suppose it has to do with the way that the line loops are settling as the rod is cast.

Roger

I must be missing something, please clear this up for me. The difference in a KL30 (60.1mm) and an HV30 (61.5mm) is 1.4mm. How much further out the blank do you have to move the K to make up a difference of 1.4mm? The tilt of the ring should have nothing to do with the height. K's are measured like every other Fuji guide from the foot to the top of the ring frame. It's a straight, vertical measurement.

I think I'm just going to go w/ the normal set-up like my other 6'6", med. spin rods. Probably a little tweak.
Technically, it looks like I would need a 30, 25, 16, 10 and runners in order to get the best line path. I feel that's just to much guide weight on the rod.
I don't think I'll be giving away much casting distance or accuracy.
Thanks

If you're just experimenting and curious, try a 25, 16, 8, 6, 6, 6, 6. I drew a to-scale set up in Illustrator and plugged in a variety of heights to compare some frames. If this will control the line in the early part of the cast and maintain a good load profile it will save you a lot of weight. I had a 6'6" spinning rod at the rod show with our new high frame 12 ring stripper and it was quiet, smooth and long. You'll have to go to KT's for the 8's and 6's.The spacing whacks out the NGC a little but you can cheat some without getting a phone call from Fuji. :•) I'll probably have 19 guys telling me why this won't work, but it looks good on paper!

William with the 1000 size reel use the 27X calculation to place your size 6 K guide then simply place your size 12 and 20 guide as per NGC instructions. Then space out the rest of the size 6 guides equally to the tip no more than 5 inches apart. I prefer to have that space closer to 4 inches.

From memory the distance between spool and stripper is about 25 inches not the prescribed 18-22. I was concerned about this distance on my firsy build but after testing i now have no concerns at all. It all works beautifully.

I have also replaced all the size 6's after the size 6 K guide choker and that is great as well especially if you want as much sensitivity in the tip as you can get.

Stu