I have just finished handles on the blanks for 3 very heavy action Muskie rods, using Syncork as handle material.

I had not used Syncork before on a rod, but only for test purposes on a mandrel. T he client wanted Syncork on the handle due to the advertised toughness of this material.

I spent some time withe the supplier, and one thing that they stressed was to build up these handles ONLY on the blanks. i.e. Don't build the handle on a mandrel and attempt to transfer to the blank, as one commonly does with cork and some other materials.
Apparently the ring to ring bond - simply won't hold up to the transfer from mandrel to blank without issues. So, I decided to go with his suggestion of building the handles on the rod, even though my tests on the madrel appeared to be all right.

Having said that, I did the common boring of the rings. Syncork is very very very tough. It machines much much harder than cork. I used the same techniques for reaming and boring as I would use for cork. i.e. I ream with a reverse direction coarse round file, and larger sizes are reamed out with coarse rotary rasps:
[www.vermontamerican.com]

After reaming, the rings, and reel seat were glued to the blank, using 30 minute epoxy.

Now comes the tough stuff.

After curing overnight, I set up my full length rod lathe.
I used a solid piece of blank,, built up with masking tape inserted into the butt of the blank to spin the blank and handle assembly.

I spoke to the supplier a bit about the best technique for working with this material.
Since the material is a man made - plastic type material the speed of the lathe is somewhat important. If spun too fast, the material may tend to get too hot and melt.

The initial cuts were made with a Surform plane which cuts through the glue line, and does the rough shaping of the handle.
Then, I moved to 80 grit paper to get the bulk of the shaping completed.
Finally finished off with 100 and 150 grit paper.
With the rings glued directly to the blank, there was no issue at all with poor glue joints or any signs of issues with the syncork adhering to the blank.

It is interesting with Syncork, and the type handle that Muskie fishermen want - is a handle that will give them very good grip - in all weather conditions. So, the folks don't want a glass finish on the handles would tend to be slippery in the wet and or slimy weather.
As a matter of fact, if the sandpaper is too fine, there is a tendency to burn the material - rather than cut the material.

I have to say that the reaming and the shaping to the final shape took about 3 times longer than I commonly take if I am making a cork handle.

Since this was my first sets of builds with Syncork, I am sure that it would go much more quickly as more handles are built up on the blanks. This is true of anything that one does, and I could see the time difference in shaping the first handle compared to the 3rd handle. I imagine that the 3rd handle only took about 1/2 the time to shape as the first handle. You learn the grit cutter, grit paper for initial and final finishing of the handle.

But, having completed the handles, they came out as expected and will do an excellent job to holding up to the very tough environment that Muskie rods live.

Roger



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2011 06:01PM by roger wilson.

Since you let it dry over night I myself would have used Regular Rod Bond to glue things up Should give a better bond of ring to ring and ring to blank. IMHO

Don't know how many have used it but there are Yoga Blocks that may be another type of cork or the Exotic Cork Just a thought

Thanks for posting - now I know what to stay away from

Bill - willierods.com

Bill,
Actually for the purpose, I don't think that there is a better product on the market. I just wanted to share what was required when working with the product. The folks who use these rods want a handle that is next to industrictible. Syncork is the perfect product for the use.

But, as they say, if you want to cut steel, don't use a wood saw. The same is true of this product. Very very tough and excellent for its intended use. Just don't take it and expect it to handle and machine in the same way that much softer materials do, like cork or EVA.

Of course, the big advantage of this material is that it is very very tough, but when I weigh 20 1 1/4 inch syncork rings and compare the weight to 20 1 1/4 inch natural cork rings, the syncork is less weight.

With respect to the comment on Rod bond - I believe that the 30 minute pro epoxy that is use is equivalent or better than Rod bond for gluing up handles.

Take care
Roger

Now just thinking outloud here....

If the material wont bond well enough to itself, ring to ring, and must use the blank it'self as a strength aspect, it seems that the syncork would be less durable over time? Can one expect the rings to loose their bond to each other with heavy use? Not being able to turn on a mandrel and transfer to rod blank later just leaves me with a lot of questions.

DR

Thanks for sharing, Roger. Seems like it would be good for use in rod holders? But it does seem like a pain in the butt to work with... and ugly. For me, on a rod that heavy, I wouldn't mind something in the handle that is heavier than cork - like some pretty burl cork. But that's just my opinion. Bottom line is to give the customer what he wants.

Chuck

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had not used Syncork before

The archives are an interesting thing.
[rodbuilding.org] > Posted by Roger Wilson 9/10/10 "Rod bond works perfectly fine to use with syncork.
Also, syncork works perfectly fine to use on mandrals and then to glue the finished handle to a blank. Give it a try and reach your own conclusion. "

[rodbuilding.org] > 9/11/10 "Lance,
I made a fixture so that I can quickly sand both sides of the syncork with 30 grit sandpaper.
This gives enough tooth for the epoxy to provide a bond that is quite adequate for gluing up on a manderal.
Roger"

Insert "munching popcorn icon" here....

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

You guys are BAD !!?? LOL

What about using a foam handle Light weight ?? Or the carbon fiber tubes Too heavy

Bill - willierods.com

Billy V alias "Inspector Hercule Poirot"

Chuck,
I agree with your comments. I too, would rather see a nice cork or burled handle on this rod.
But you know, the client is always right.

I still have to say, that this is one very tough material.

Sorry about the confusion on my original post. I had done some testing with syncork on a mandrel testing glue and applicaiton, but had not done any glue ups on a rod. I have corrected my original post. I did the glue ups based on the recommendations of the supplier, not my testing which seemed to indicate no issues.

Roger

Well heck Mr. Billy Vivona Sir .....maybe some of us would rather carry on a NEW conversation rather than spend the afternoon hunting in the past. Searching @#$%&, always has always will. If we didn't re-hash anything here, we'd be dead. 90% of the time someone "in the know" can answer the dang question in the time it takes one to type "didn't you search the archives?" :-) I hate popcorn too.....LOL

Happy Friday! :-) Just razzing ya Billy!! :-)


DR



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2011 03:40PM by Duane Richards.

I recently did a grip containing some lengths of Syncork flanking regular cork.

#1 - I felt the grip was really ugly looking. I couldn't use it without asking the customer for their feedback. They didn't like it either. I've shown a few guys and since and none have cared for the look.

#2 - I used standard Rod Bond to bond my rings. I prepped each face on a sanding block prior to glue up.

#3 - I salvaged the cork out of the grip. I put the grip on my chop saw and cut thru the Syncork leaving a 1/32" thick layer of Syncork against my regular cork. My intent was to sand that off on my disc sander so I could reuse the cork for a new grip. I easily peeled the Syncork away from the regular cork by getting under it with my fingernail and lifting. Each end peeled off in about 3 chunks.

#4 - It was easy to separate the Syncork rings from each other with my fingers. After seeing how easily it separated from the regular cork, I wondered about all the joints.

#5- I'm not happy with Rod Bond as an adhesive for the material.


Syncork has its place, but take the time to learn where that is and how to work with the material. It is light weight and durable. It is not attractive. (IMHO)


..............................

Better to have and not need than to need and not have.

Matt,
I have used plastic bonding epoxy over the last year since it came on the marke for some various repair projects around the shop and home. This plastic epoxy works very very well to glue various types of plastic. Much better than conventional epoxy or rod bond.

Although I haven't tried it, I think I will try some experiments gluing syncork with the plastic gluing epoxy. Since syncork is a form of expanded poly - it would seem that such an epoxy might be just the ticket.

[www.google.com]#

Roger

I would think products with a chemical welding agent would fare much better.

I'm still disorganized from my move but I've got a can of Weld-On for acrylic and styrene somewhere that I'd like to try.



............................

Better to have and not need than to need and not have.

If you guys find something that is suitable, would you mind sending me an email? I've been doing some searching myself for a suitable epoxy for syncork.

thanks,
jeremy

Jeremy,
I suspect that if you give the Syncork a try, using conventional Epoxy on an on the rod handle build, you will be very happy.

There have been several hundred rods built using syncork using this method and there have been essentially 0 failures.

I might suppose that due to the toughness of the material, that if the material is glued up on a mandrel and then taken off and reamed, that due to the very tough nature of the material, it is very tough to ream out the full length grips and thus failures occur.

But, when each ring is reamed individually, and then placed on the blank and glued up, there is not the extreme force that you would get on the grip, when drying to do a full length ream of the tough material.

But, perhaps the best thing to do, is to build up a rod yourself, reaming the rings first and then turning the handle on a full length rod lathe, use the rod and see how you like it.

If you think about it, you can take virtually and handle material like cork, glue it up on a mandrel, shape it, take it off of the mandrel and then grab the grip in both hands and essentially snap it in half with not a lot of pressure.
i.e. you need to compare the needs of the handle - on the rod, as compared to the handle off of the rod. As long as the glue joint is about as strong as the mother material, the handle will be fine.

The same thing is true of EVA foam - it is very easy to take an EVA foam grip and take it in two hands and snap it in half - whent he grip is off of the blank. But there are very few failures of a grip in actual use with the grip on the rod.

Good luck
REW