Do any of you tec guys know the vickers hardness rating for the PacBay Minima guides?

It is probably around 900 ... but you are going to have to get with PacBay to find out exactly.

I don't know, but I wonder what difference it makes? AS long as it holds up to fishing conditions/braided line, that's all that should matter?

Billy; I don't want to use the Minima guides with braided line but would just like to know. Thanks

Darrell,
Lots and lots of folks have been using the Pac Bay minima guides for the last several years with mono, braid and other types of line and have not really reported any issues. I use Pac Bay a lot on various rods and the clients are hppay with them.
Tough to beat them for weight and price.

Roger

Darrell I gotcha. SOmewhere in teh archives here there is at least one post which lists al teh Vickers hardness for most of he guides available, at the time. I do not think teh minuima's were on that list, but it migh tbe something to Search for here.

The post Billy was referring to:

[rodbuilding.org]

Joe

If a customer is going to pay a premium price for "super hard guide rings" that customer is entitled to something more than marketing jive or dubiously motivated anecdotal praises; something like an objective measurement, such as a Vickers scale rating. Vickers ratings are not very difficult to determine.

Hi All,
Our hard chrome finished Minima Guides have industrial hard chrome applied. It is also referred to as engineering or functional grade hard chrome and typically has an Hv value between 800 and 1100. This data can be obtained quickly through most search engines. You can tell our guides feature this type of chrome plating by the somewhat "frosted" appearance the finish has. Chrome plating that is only cosmetic typically has shiny appearance. PacBay does make an effort to supply robust information about it's products. If you view the spec sheets linked to the new Quickline Blanks or the new FX / FXT micro guides and tops on our website you'll find more specs than you can shake a stick at.

PS
One other thing to note is that our tests have shown that mono is tougher on guide rings than braid due to the mono being "harder". The only time braid becomes an issue is when it picks up an abrasive such as sand.

-The Batson TEAM
BatsonEnterprises.com

There used to be a site with the Victor scale numbers on it Don't think it is around any more

Bill - willierods.com

I personally, without any data I admit, think that the hardness of guides doesn't matter much. I've had a lot of cheap rods that I've used for many years and never have had a guide ring groove or otherwise show signs of inordinate wear. Tiptops, now that's another issue. I have had tiptops groove, and had one crack. When I build rods, I always use one of the premium ring tiptops to prevent problems due to braid or other stuff that can cause distress to guides/tiptops. I think that guides can be made of just about anything and will still work well.

I have uploaded a chart of Vickers Hardness results for all Fuji® Ring Materials to the photo forum. Search "Vickers" and you should be able to locate the chart.

Anglers Resource

Does anyone care to suggest the point at which the "law of diminishing returns" becomes applicable, with respect to the Vickers scale? At what point is the likelihood of wear minimized to the point of none existence? Or, what species of fish actually threaten to produce runs that are capable of creating damaging friction? Or, which guides have rings are most likely to pop out of their frames? I said it before, but you can upgrade your stereo system to the point where only your dog and cat can hear the difference. Is this a benefit for which you should pay?

I know some of you have clients that want the absolute best. I know some you want the absolute best for yourselves. However, I never, ever hear anyone define the point on the Vickers scale at which hardness ceases to matter. I'm sure that point exists, and it would be nice to know where it is. Anyone? Or, would such knowledge upset the marketing strategies of those suppliers upon whom we depend for components? (Yes, I can be a cynic, at times.) In the interest of full disclosure, I have, in the past, used Zirconia/Zirconium rings, but primarily for cosmetic reasons. They come in spiffy colors, doncha know? Thanks.
Slainte,
Hunter

From ghoulies and ghosties,
and long leggedy beasties,
and things that go bump in the night,
Good Lord deliver us!

Well said Mr. Armstrong. However, it seems there will never be a point at which everyone is happy with the data (or availability of it.) I think it is in part due to the meticulous nature of rod builders, which I can appreciate, even when the requests sometimes become exhausting. I think it is also due to a surplus of "marketing magic" in product descriptions. After reading all the wild claims and names in ads most customers just want the facts about the products they're buying, at least consciously. One of my favorites is when blanks are described as being made of extremely high modulus graphite when only a small portion (usually the butt section) of that blank has such high modulus. Otherwise they would have extremely high breakage rates. Marketing flash will always have it's place. However, I think it needs to be balanced with accurate information as well.

-The Batson TEAM
BatsonEnterprises.com

Hunter Armstrong, your comments make perfect sense. Unfortunately, perfect sense is largely superfluous in today's market place. Consumers don't buy utility, they attempt to buy expertise, recognition, respect, even immortality. I'm quite sure many custom rodbuilders know what I mean.