I could use some advice on butt guide selection.

Building my first rod in many years and first one ever applying the NGC concept. I’m using the NGC article in the library here for direction. Here are the particulars:

-I’m building a spinning rod on a St. Croix 3S70MLF2 blank.
-Using Fuji LVSG 6’s for the choker and running guides and using YSG’s for butt and reduction guides.
-Spool diameter of 47mm

I placed the choker per the 27X method. Then set the rod along a straight edge from spool spindle to top edge of choker. Trying to place a YSG 30 for the butt guide. But, it’s top edge lines up with the straight edge at just shy of 15” from the spool. The article in the library here suggests 18-22” or try another guide. I need a shorter guide to get within that 18-22" range.

So, my question then, would you rather use a YSG 25 for the butt guide, or, find a 30 on a shorter frame than the YSG? And, if you would recommend the shorter framed 30, which ones should I be looking at? Are the LVSG’s shorter than the YSG’s (I can't tell from online catalog pictures)?

For the rest of the reduction train, it looks like a YSG 16 and a 10 will place nicely – once I get a butt guide placed somewhere in that 18” to 22” range.

Separate question, while I have your attention? The NGC article says to place the runners equidistant between choker and tip top, from 4” to 5” apart. It just so happens, that using the 27X method on this one, puts the choker exactly 20” from the tip top. So, I can use either 4 running guides at 4” apart, or 3 running guides at 5” apart. Either way, they’ll be equidistant and within the 4” to 5” recommendation. I think I’m going to use the extra runner (I have the guide already…), but am curious what you guys would do?

Thanks as always!

- Dave

If the line you're using is light/small/supple, or braid, at least drop to a 25 butt guide. A 30 is awfully large unless you're using very heavy or very stiff line.

.............

Thanks for that. I'll be using either 8 lb mono, or braid that is thinner than that. So, perhaps a YSG 25 is what I should look at. I actually had a 25 written down in my notes as a likely candidate, based purely on reading old posts and library articles here. But, coming into this, having not built or purchased a rod in a lot of years, I looked at all my old spinning rods and they all have 30's on the butt, so I second guessed myself and changed my mind right as I was ordering components. Figures...

Do you think I'm on the right track using more/closer spaced running guides, with the fast tip?

- Dave

25mm is the technically correct option IMO ... 47 divided by 2 = 23.5. Your spool dimension is the same as a Stradic 3000 with which I almost always use a 25mm butt guide. The 30mm is "old school", don't let that influence you.

Dave Affleck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> So, my question then, would you rather use a YSG
> 25 for the butt guide, or, find a 30 on a shorter
> frame than the YSG?
>
> - Dave

I would (and do) use the 16 as the butt guide, but that's on a 2500 size Symetre and 2/10 PP braid. I've had 30's on rods, tried 25's, pushed as far as I care to and went down to a 16. With braid, it works quite well and I honestly did not notice much if any effect on distance.

Tape 'em and test 'em, forget the formulas for a bit. Start small and run them down smaller, I found that there is little benefit to alot of transition sizes and it can be done rather quickly to the 6mm. Don't know how that would fare with 8lb mono, especially in colder weather. If you can stick with braids, you can do it.

A 20 would be fine if you can get the height you need. Otherwise use the 25. You certainly don't need a 30.

If the running guides are small and light, using 4 at 4 inch intervals will be fine. Because it only takes a few minutes to try it, rig up a set with 3 at 5 inches apart and test cast that as well, although I doubt you're going to find much, if any, practical difference.

....................

"For the rest of the reduction train, it looks like a YSG 16 and a 10 will place nicely – once I get a butt guide placed somewhere in that 18” to 22” range. "

Dave,
We commonly move the butt guide further up the rod, 23" to 26" is where most end up.
Sometimes as far as 28-29" up.
Then the smaller ring with a higher frame works really well.
Always test cast to make sure there is no line slap on the blank.
If you have some really bright colored line, it will help if you can put about 30-50' on top of the normal line so you can watch it come off the spool during a cast.
Just be similar in material and line diameter.

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
[www.schneidersrods.com]
mtnron40@yahoo.com
870-424-3381

If you need a smaller ring and more height this may work: [www.mudhole.com]
Just line up the next tow or three in the same path

Bill - willierods.com

The 30V butt guide will work, but so will the 25Y... in general, it's better to go with the 25Y for weight reduction, that's the butt guide I use.

How I set up the first two guides by test casting: Put the first/butt guide at the lowest position the article suggests, 18". During test casting, start moving only the butt guide forward in small increments, perhaps 1/2" or so, and watch the ballooning of the line at the butt guide. At some point, you'll have moved it far enough forward that you will see a slight but noticeable reduction in ballooning of the line... stop at this point, that's the butt guide's final resting position.

Repeat this procedure for the second guide. (You can stop test casting here if you want because most of the friction is on the first two guides, they're position is the most critical)

Now that you have the positions of guides 1 and 2 set, bring the rod back to the work bench. The first two guides are all you need to set up the positions of the remaining reduction guides. Place the two guides up against a straight edge/table edge/or door and place the remaining reduction guides so that they all line up against the straight edge as the article suggests. Again, don't move the first and second guides; you have already set their positions previously with test casting.

A word on running guides: If you are not using long leaders and their accompanying leader knots which are reeled through the guides, you may be able to use smaller micro/mini ceramic fly guides.... these would further reduce weight on the tip of the rod, increasing resonant frequency which may boost casting distance and sensitivity (technically, nothing we add to a rod produces gains, heavier components take away from performance).

To contact me, visit
[www.snyderrods.com]

Thanks Fellas. I ordered a 25, when it gets here I'll definitely do some test casting before finalizing placement. Got a feeling this thing is going to cast 1/4 oz. spoons like a rocket launcher!

- Dave

Dave,
If you don't have a selection of guide sizes on hand, it is not a bad idea to pick up a full set of inexpensive guides ranging from size 50 down to size 3.
That way, when you need to run tests you will have the guides on hand to do tests before you make your final decision.

Good luck
Roger