One of my client ask me for this question, after 2 or 3 years of using his rods - from March - December every weekend fishing trip, flex coat coating on his rods change color in rain from clear to milky white or grey, help me to explain him that this is normal if he use rods.
Explain him why it is. He do not believe me.
thanks
Michal

M.S.Handbuilt

I have to stop short of saying it's normal, however it can and does happen if water gets under the epoxy.
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Thank you Tom, I wrote a few article on my websites for my client but still some of them stress me with this qestion, if you agree I will show him you ansver.

You may want to try and figure out how water is getting under the epoxy.


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I agree with Tom! It sounds like maybe the tunnel hole was not sealed or the finish did not completely encapsulate the wrap.

Good Wraps Bob

Tom is right. But I suspect it's not as blatant as it seems. I've had this happen from time to time too and couldn't put my finger on it. There is absolutely no water anywhere near my wrapping and finishing area and I never use water on or near wraps for any kind of cleaning. I go to extra effort to make sure things are dry. However, I'm outside in a nature controlled environment meaning all is exposed to the changes in temperature, wator vapor, humidity, dew point, etc. (No rain, though). I suspect that some finishes are sensitive to changes in temps and water vapor or some may actually trap water vapor during the curing process. I have a one rod hot drying box. Never happens in the box, but, when trying to dry two rods at once (one in the hot box and one on the table top), I've had the one on the table do that milky finish thing you're talking about. But it was always on a cold day. Doesn't happen in the summer at all.
BTW, and I know there are those that will argue this, but I've never, ever, ever, ever, had that problem with LS in any kind of weather, in or out of the box. FC and TM, all the time. In my experience, they all have their own problems. Advise to get/build a drying box and use whatever finish you want.

I agree with Tom sounds like moisture got under the wraps often if you put the rod in a warm dry area you will see the finish clear up in a few days and go back to looking normal, if this occurs it is almost definitely moisture under the wrap

Just wanted to chime in that it may be from some slight damage done along the way that has pulled some of the finish from around the tunnels.
Not necessarily an error on anyone's part.
I have some rods that have seen long, hard use and a few of them will get "milky" when used in the rain.
They always return to normal when they dry out.
When it gets too bad, I have slightly roughed up the old finish and applied another coat.
Just a tip, that it is best for the long haul to err on the side of a little too much when applying around guide feet.
I have seen some really nice finish jobs that do not have quite enough around the guide tunnels, or extend far enough off the foot of the wrap.
Eventually due to wear and tear, that "milky" appearence can happen.
I've seen it on more than just Flex Coat finishes.
Hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
[www.schneidersrods.com]
mtnron40@yahoo.com
870-424-3381

I have some 1980's All Star rods (that used Flex Coat I think) that turn white every time they get wet. One thing you can tell him is that it does not seem to hurt the wraps since they are still going strong and I have never had one come off. I will say I thought it was the coating itself absorbing water and not under the wraps because all the wraps turned white on three different rods but I never inspected to see if they had moisture under the wrap. As others mentioned they do "dry out". I just thought it was the finish absorbing moisture?? I do not remember having this issue with newer Flex Coat or other finishes?

It is very common to get a "crack" in the finish at the front of a guide foot.
Will this allow the moisture to get in?

Also I find it common for the epoxy around the tunnel to "pull away from the blank
after much use.
Again is this the reason moisture could get in?

I coat my wraps well but have had that problem of the finish turning milky.
It always goes away when dried out and I have not noticed any additional guide/wrap problems.

Has anyone determined if this happens with Threadmaster or the new Pro coat?

Does the wrap have CP on it? One of th erods I did use CP on i have the same problem I think there was cp extended beyond where the Glass Coat went. When the CP wore off of the blank it caused a slight crack which allows moisture to get underneath the epoxy

Rolly Beenen
Rovic Custom Rods

Hints: cracking finish over the guide feet. Some feet have to be prepped, the feet should have slight taper, so when the transition from the foot to the blank is smooth, no bump ups on to the foot. A thick guide foot will not flex with the blank this can cause cracking of the finish. to make sure the tunnel is filled, use a tooth pick with finish on it , an shove in to the tunnel hole filling the gap. When using CP the finish must go on past the CP line this makes sure the CP is encapsulated. This should insure there will be no water seepage

Good Wraps Bob

i believe water vapor, or water getting under the epoxy is the culprit.
last month someone wrote about this.
Have you tried a search?

That is what We all have been saying! The finish did not encapsulate the entire wrap. Also there must be a dozen or more post related to this. like Gabe said go to search.

Good Wraps Bob

You could rewrap --Or dry the wraps out real good. The scoff the finish up and recoat. make sure you go over the old finish and onto the blank. And also cover the feet going up to the ring. Complete Coverage.

Not saying it will not crack with age and let moisture in again. -- Unless you want to re-wrap ??

Bill - willierods.com

Thank you all,

my opinion is that on rods like this - special carp fishing rods 12´ 31/2lbs casting weight, that means 120gr. casting for distance about 150metres.

The presure on the guid foot when my client casting is to high and than on the place where the coat is ending is occuring small micro crack and then humidity and watter is going under coat. These micro crack is occuring when the rod is bent for the first time and

than the process is starting as soon as my client cast with rod for the first time with heavy weight. For 2 years is no problem because there is no changing of chemical properties of coat but after 2or 3 years there is a small changes and than starting changing of color in rain or winter.

After rain the color is changing back to cristal clear of course. Another important thing is that this client has his rods every week on the bank for at least 72 hours in all type of weather. His season starts 1.march and ending 1.December.

Of course another thing is that in my country is sometimes acid rain and this also damage all type of coats.

But as I supposed all these conditions is not normal and make life of every coat shorter than usual.

I am waiting your comments.

Michal

M.S.Handbuilt

The moisture does not have to get under the epoxy to cause this white blush effect!!! Below is an excerpt from a DOW article on the subject.

AMINE BLUSH

When some epoxy binder systems are
applied under low temperature and/or
high humidity conditions, a side effect
of the curing reaction may appear on
the coating surface. This side effect
can manifest itself as grey cloudiness;
gloss reduction, a greasy, waxy layer;
or as white crystals or patches. In some
instances it may not be visible. However,
on contact with high humidity or water,
the coated areas can display opaque
white.

The appearance of these marks can
occur during cure or even after this is
completed. Although the exudate is, in
principle, water soluble it will in most
cases not wipe off easily with water,
thinners or solvents. Often it can only
be removed by dry or wet sanding
after the binder has completely cured

my warnishing room has constant tempriture 22-25 degrees Celsia and humidity all the time between 30-40%. it is not problem with process. I am doing 100+rods every year.