Which ,and am open to all suggestions thread art book or books would anyone reccommend to a newbie to thread art. Have done a diamond wrap for practice. Was wondering if billy's book would be to much to start with, being a beginner.

Kern Davis, Lady Lake Fl.

Do you have one of those $200 jigs? I got his book and alot of the patterns are complex and too hard for me to do without a jig.

Tom Kirkmans book is a must for any new rod builders and covers the basic Diamond an Chevron wraps VERY well. I would highly recommend Billy's book

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

I don't know what jigs Dan is referring to, but you do not need a jig for a Decorative Wrap. I can point you to threads on other sites which have a lot of reviews of my bok, sin ceI'm obviously biased

Dan,

There are no jigs involved with decorative wraps. I think that you might be referring to weaving, which is different from Wraps. For weaving, a simple home made jig can be used anf Jim Uptons excellant book on weaving even has instructions on making one. There was also an article in Rodmaker magazine on making them (I believe by Jim)

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Mike Barkley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dan,
>
> There are no jigs involved with decorative wraps.
> I think that you might be referring to weaving,
> which is different from Wraps. For weaving, a
> simple home made jig can be used anf Jim Uptons
> excellant book on weaving even has instructions on
> making one. There was also an article in Rodmaker
> magazine on making them (I believe by Jim)

That's great if you don't need a jig, I was under the impression that you did.

For another beginner here I got Dale Clemens Advanced Custom Rod Building and he goes over some basic patterns that I thought were easy to understand with good diagrams. I also got Billy's book but it looks like I need to read over it again.

I highly recomend everything mentioned above but the very basic begginer can do well with the dec. wrap booklets by Flex-Coat. They have 3 booklets with 4 patterns in each booklet like the thunderbird, maze, flags, ect.. and each booklet is about 5 bucks.

The books mentioned above are great choices too and provide much more instruction than just wrapping sequences.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

I started to re-read Billy Vivonas book and I'm completely lost. I can't follow the way he describes the wrapping process. He uses terms which IMO are not clearly described. I had much better luck with Dales book which seems to be written very straight forward, at least for a beginner. Dale's book physically shows the progression of where the wraps will go and makes it easy. With Vivonas book you have to decipher a one picture diagram of the wrap. For some reason it's just not clicking with me. Hope this helps for any other newbies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2011 01:57AM by Dan Nico.

Dan N.
Read pages 20 & 21 of Billy's book. It details the glossary describing the same terms used in Dale's book that we all use.

Just like in the song "alice's restaurant" each pattern has circles and or arrows telling which each one does and how the wrap progresses.

Granted, the Visual Wrap progression pix used can look intimidating to a novice but you actually have more info than in Dale's "CRTA".

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

From one newbie to another I bought Tom's book, 2 Clemens books, & Billys book. Each book has a lot of the same things but explained in slightly different ways. For me Billys book was very easy to understand if you take the time and go through it slowly. Don't try to cram too much into your head at once lol.

I do have toms book and the flexcoat pamphlets. that is where i have started out of toms book. I will end up with all books mentioned above and then some dvd's also. I would like to find a program for thread wraps and the different color combos, etc. so as to be able see the wrap completed before hand.Thank you Dan, Mike, Billy V. {Always amazing; Thread Whisperer} Raymond, and Tommy and to all who take the time to help others out at any given time.

Kern Davis, Lady Lake Fl.

In order of complexity (simple to difficult)

Tom Kirkman's book (great starter)

Dale Clemens' book Custom Rod Thread Art (more patterns, more verbiage on start up)

Billy's book/pamphlet (different slightly more complex)

Jim Upton's book on weaving (for this one a set of weaving looms is better - can be done with tape alone but much harder than with a loom. Simple looms are available for around $40 if you check around - especially on @#$%& sites)

I Have the three books Ken just mentioned. I agree in the order as stated.

Billys is a little more complex, after you do a couple of easier ones it will all come togethere for you,

Bill

Ohio Rod Builders

Canton, Ohio

I actually wrote mine to simplify the process of wrapping and understanding the patterns from Clemens book. I took the first 82 pages of Clemens, and fit it into 12 pages. I also made the patterns easier to understand with more photos and arrows pointing which direction the threads are supposed to be wrapped. I also put the same verbiage in each pattern as it appears in Clemens book, so the info on each pattern is the same from a base level. I also includd spacing charts, which tell you where the inital threads should go for almost every pattern in the book - about half the patterns in my book are in Clemens book, we both have over 100 patterns, I just updated and added a whole bunch of new ones.

DAn - I don't understrand how you could read the book once and think you needed a $200 jig, then re-read it and skip over the Glossary - funny thing is the terms I use are the same as what CLemens uses in his book. Since I have 8 pictures per pattern in my book, and Clemens has 1 photo, and my book shows the progression of each pattern step by step, you have both books mixed up.

Here is a snapshot of how I lay out EVERY pattern in my book: [visualweave.com] This shows the step by step progression > the reason I sprial bound the book was so you could open the book FLAT on your benchtop and as you wrap you can check tomake sure everythign is going as it should. I found it helpd if people could see how the pattern developed, and had confidance that what they were spending 10+ hours on was going to look like they expected it to.

Great to watch all the posts about this. We all use different methods to do the same thing. I would say start with Dale's first book and learn it well. Then go to Billy V's book.

For his book I highly recommend you learn his glossary and terms first. Try a curved triangle at first and as you see what he means it gets better. Get your hands in the mix.

I started with both of Dales books. Then I went & purchased Billy's book. The advantage to Billy's book is that it has alot more patterns and alot of them are more detail orientated and intricate. Which are going to make them more difficult. But it has plenty of beginner pattens and for your $ in my opinion is better in the long run. But like every thing in rod building, you must learn to crawl before you walk. Don't buy the book and expect to wrap pattens like Billy just because you have his book. It takes practice, and more practice.

The real difference comes down to customer service. I have found that every wrap I do, if I post a picture of it, Billy is always willing to give me a fair critique. And he will always tell me how to make improvements, as long as I listen. When Billy starts charging me for that I will probably say differnt.....LOL!

Mike

billys book is the best even if ur a beginner,

Billy Vivona Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I actually wrote mine to simplify the process of
> wrapping and understanding the patterns from
> Clemens book. I took the first 82 pages of
> Clemens, and fit it into 12 pages. I also made the
> patterns easier to understand with more photos and
> arrows pointing which direction the threads are
> supposed to be wrapped. I also put the same
> verbiage in each pattern as it appears in Clemens
> book, so the info on each pattern is the same from
> a base level. I also includd spacing charts, which
> tell you where the inital threads should go for
> almost every pattern in the book - about half the
> patterns in my book are in Clemens book, we both
> have over 100 patterns, I just updated and added a
> whole bunch of new ones.
>
> DAn - I don't understrand how you could read the
> book once and think you needed a $200 jig, then
> re-read it and skip over the Glossary - funny
> thing is the terms I use are the same as what
> CLemens uses in his book. Since I have 8 pictures
> per pattern in my book, and Clemens has 1 photo,
> and my book shows the progression of each pattern
> step by step, you have both books mixed up.
>
> Here is a snapshot of how I lay out EVERY pattern
> in my book:
> [visualweave.com]
> 84865 This shows the step by step progression >
> the reason I sprial bound the book was so you
> could open the book FLAT on your benchtop and as
> you wrap you can check tomake sure everythign is
> going as it should. I found it helpd if people
> could see how the pattern developed, and had
> confidance that what they were spending 10+ hours
> on was going to look like they expected it to.

Billy, I'm actually talking about Dales Custom Rod Thread Art book in my later post, he goes into pages and pages of explaining different aspects of the wraps. I guess for me it's easier to understand things in a paragraph format. Up to page 91 it's almost all paragraph then towards the end it starts up that way again. Also it shows the progression in a different way. I think once I get a hang of some wraps it will be easier for me to understand your book. I'm not saying it's not written well, different people understand things in different ways is all. Someone else may find your book easier to follow, it just wasn't for me. The jig comment was something I picked up on another rod building forum and not understanding how to complete the wraps in your book got me mixed up on that point.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2011 09:41PM by Dan Nico.

Ok, didn't mean to start anything was just wanting opinions. i agree for me that toms book is a good start. Am crawling slowly gettin the hang of things.Putting 4 threads in my fingers and actually doing my first diamond wrap per tom was a great feeling ,alittle clumsy at first worked out pretty good for me. Dale's book is on the way. Within the next few weeks will hopefully have a old rod wrapped that is an old favorite. thanks for all the info and input from everyone . Hoping to make the Expo this year.

Kern Davis, Lady Lake Fl.