I notice that the use of Xylene is often recommended here and at the risk of sounding like an alarmist, I would like to point out that Xylene is pretty toxic and can be very dangerous if precautions aren't taken. With the number of people using this forum (many of them inexperienced and unfamiliar with chemicals) I think that any recommendation of it's use should be accompanied by a caveat!

I would recommend that this be read in it's entirety by anyone considering using it [www.osha.gov] Personally, I never use anything stronger than Denatured alcohol in my shop

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

My strongest solvent is DNA as well. I even use IPA when doing light cleanup work. Xylene/Ethylbenzene is some nasty stuff. Not only are these items very toxic when inhaled, ingested or absorbed - they go BOOM very easily. IF you must work with it, use an organic vapor breathing apparatus, chemical resistant gloves AND proper ventilation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2011 10:42PM by Jim Gamble.

Mike,
Well said.
I do use Xylene from time to time as needed, but I am very careful with its use. I use a chemical proof mask and I work with open windows with forced ventilation keeping the fumes out of the workshop.

You are absolutely correct. Very toxic and a great need to be very careful in its use.

This solvent does certainly fill a nich in rod building that can not be matched by the use of Alchol. Most of the time, alchol will take care of most of the needs of the rod builder. But there are times, where the stronger properties of Xylene is what is really needed to take care of a particular job.

Roger

i've never needed to use anything othe rthan DNA. I can't even think of a situaton that would warrant using anything stronger.

The continued recomendation by one or two individuals here saying it's OK to use those harsh chemicals gives the idea to all the new rodbuilders around here that it's a standard practice to use those type of chemicals. Not everyone will heed the warnings and just go ahead and throw some on a rag to wipe down their rods nor realizing the long term ill effects those chemicals can cause. How many guys will throw on protective clothing, rubber gloves, a respirator or what ever else you can sport just for a twenty second wipe down of a blank ? I was guilty of doing just that a few years ago until I realized that DNA or regular alcohol took care of that twenty second wipe down just as good as xylene or acetone.

Lance

SOme of the info being posted is SCARY. Volum epostin gdoesn't equate to quality, or even accuracy

I cannot think of a single instance in rod building where only Xylene will work! Many rod builders build in their homes, and using these dangerous solvents where other family members may be present is at best foolhardy!

I've only got DNA and some goo gone for label removal in the shop.

I've actually gone to wearing nitrile gloves anytime I am working with epoxies or DNA. Even reading this - it makes Denatured Alcohol (DNA) sound safe... but on the MSDS:

Inhalation Acute Exposure Effects: Vapor harmful. May cause dizziness, headache, watering of eyes, irritation of respiratory tract, irritation to the eyes, drowsiness, nausea, other central nervous system effects, spotted vision, dilation of pupils, and convulsions.

Skin Contact Acute Exposure Effects: May cause irritation, drying of skin, redness, and dermatitis. May cause symptoms listed under inhalation. May be absorbed through damaged skin.

Eye Contact Acute Exposure Effects: May cause irritation.

Ingestion Acute Exposure Effects: Poison. Cannot be made non-poisonous. May be fatal or cause blindness. May produce fluid in the lungs and pulmonary edema. May cause dizziness, headache, nausea, drowsiness, loss of coordination, stupor, reddening of face and or neck, liver, kidney and heart damage, coma, and death. May produce symptoms listed under inhalation.

Chronic Exposure Effects:
May cause symptoms listed under inhalation, dizziness, fatigue, tremors, permanent central nervous system changes, blindness, pancreatic damage, and death.

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Alex - use a heat gun the labels peel right off most blanks with minimal heat. Or you could use MEK, lmao

I was once pretty casual about using safety gloves etc when washing auto parts with gasoline or paint thinner or carb cleaner. Then an art instructor told me that use of thinners for printer's ink had caused "printer's disease", which is known today as impotence or E.D. ! Needless to say, I am considerably more careful about solvent use today! These things can change your life.

Billy - that is too simple. Plus I would have to plug it in and risk igniting my DNA. :)

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Seriously, use a heat gun or hair dryer for like 10 seconds, they all peel right off. Lift one edge up, blow heat under the label, and lift and keep heating. THEr ewil e a drop of adhesive left which probably doesnt' even need to be cleaned depending on teh size of the label & handle you're gluing up

Mike,

Thank you, This is an excellent post. I do not use Xylene, but I some times do use acetone which can be almost as bad It too is extremely toxic and flamable . I use it out side only and do not even keep it in the house.

Bill

Ohio Rod Builders

Canton, Ohio

The problem here, IMO, is that in a few days when this thread is buried, new builders will continue to see these products recommended. Unfortunately many builders automaticall assume tha anything the read here is correct (after all everyone knows that if it' on the internet, it has to be true!!)

Like Billy said, the number of posts someone makes is NOT an indication of knowledge. Anyone who has been building for long or visiting this forum knows that there are various methods that people use in building. While most will work, many are downright scary!!!

When I make any recommendations, I try to make sure that I state that it's my OPINION.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Thanks for the informative reading fellas. I need to pay more attention to how I am handling this stuff myself, as I am a new builder also. I tend to use only DNA, but I have used Acetone a couple of times. But this makes me evaluate how I am handling these chemicals and the need to keep my children clear while working.

For those who state they "never use xylene' means they never use permagloss? Xylene is the solvent in Permagloss! While I don't have any xylene, I do use Permagloss!

Ed Smith
Flat Rock, NC
War Eagle

It isn't just the thinners/solvents that are dangerous. The results of mixing things like Acetone and Epoxy during cleanup make the particle sizes small enought to penetrate skin poors, not to mention several of the cheap nitrile gloves. I am living proof that sloppy shop practices can do serious damage. Three trips to the ER in as many days from epoxy sensitivity allergic reaction has change the way I do everything in my shop. The amines in all the part B's is very bad stuff.

Viton is the recommended glove material for handling hydrocarbon-based solvents.

Guys, I've been in the surfboard/boat building and repair business for 40 years, and have also built a few rods in my time, but not like most here. I only give the background to hopefully back up what I'm about to tell you.

MEK is way ahead of any of the others mentioned as a dewaxer/degreaser/surface prep. It's so good that many high $$$$ two part paints for aircraft and boats say to use MEK and NOTHING BUT MEK as a a pre-paint surface prep, even on aluminum, and that stuff is notoriously hard to get clean. Conversely: Most product labels specifically state NOT to use acetone as a surface prep!!!! Although acetone does a good job at cutting things like body oil, it doesn't touch most petroleum based oils and is far less well suited for waxes and silicones too.

For the more alarmist types who have posted: you can't fix stupid! Nobody can force someone else to not only read but also follow the precautionary labels on anything!!! Using common sense, good ventilation and gloves is recommended on all MSDS sheets and labels on products containing VOCs. It's up to the individual, not humanity, to use anything correctly!

Please see the MSDS sheets below for DNA, xylene, acetone and MEK. They are basically all the SAME. The one caveat is that the slowest evaporating of the bunch (or any VOC) stays on any surface longer, including your skin, so common sense says that there will be a greater likelihood of possible skin irritation or absorption, also known as danger to YOU. Of these three, xylene evaporates the slowest (VERY slow) and acetone the fastest, with MEK being very close behind.


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