Could fish eyes be a result of over enthusiastic spraying of the Bubble Buster spray?

Pesco Ergo Sum

I have never used the product, Bubble Buster Spray . Most fish eye problems are caused by contamination of a silicone product from a spray bottle, past or a wax product left laying around on wipe down rages. This can contaminate the surrounding work area air space. also if you are using medical syringes, the syringes are lubricated with a silicone, this allows the plunger to slide smoothly

Good Wraps Bob

picked up several tips over the past couple of years on here and my fisheyes are down to none on last three rods.
i wipe my hands down with alcohol before i start, as well as my burnishing tool, wipe scissors, razor blades, etc. as well., i use metal cups for mixing my epoxy and even wipe them out., plus a good wipe down of rod prior to starting any work and between wraps once in a while as well.

Why a metal cup Jim? Plastic give you troubles?

DR

1. Having oily hands while handling guides

2. Oily fingers and running the thread between thumb and fingers as you wrap

3. Using any kind of lubricant in the near vicinity

4. Dirty work area with greasy tools or rags laying around

5. Not rod building thread, sewing machine thread has a lubricant which will cause fish eyes

Just a few thoughts, Good luck.

Bill

Ohio Rod Builders

Canton, Ohio

Yes, I had a bad experience with the Bubble Buster spray the other night. I have used it before, and I believe if used properly it will work fine. I think my epoxy had set up a little too much, and when I hit it with the Bubble Buster, about 500 fish eyes appeared in it. Honestly, I walked over to the trash can and thew it away so I wouldn't be tempted to use it again.

Fish eyes and micro bubbles aren't the same thing. Without a photo it's hard to say what you've got going on there.

Even though you can't see them, most hand mixed finishes are going to have bubbles in them. If you hit the epoxy with a spray too far into the setting process, the bubbles will rise and attempt to come out, but the thickened epoxy won't easily release them. So you end up with hundreds and hundreds of tiny bubbles trapped just under the surface.

Anything you do in terms of bubble release should be done as early as possible in the finishing process. Not 15 or 20 minutes after you've mixed the epoxy.

..............

Mine was for sure a bunch of Fish Eyes. It was like as soon as I pressed the spray button, the epoxy decided that it didn't want to be on the rod anymore, so it climbed on top of itself and left fisheyes everywhere. I had a very thin coat of highbuild, and I think the bubble buster changed the surface tension. In the past I poured my epoxy out on foil and sprayed it with the bubble buster, and it worked well.

I am learning the hard way to put the epoxy on the rod and quit playing with it.

Hi & thanks for your interest in our Bubble Buster product.

No we do not believe excessive use of Bubble Buster caused your fish eyes. As others above have posted, we believe the problem was caused by something else. One of the biggest problems we find as the source of fish eyes in the use of non-rod building threads which contain silicon lubricates. We recommend rod builders only use rod building threads – like ProWrap Thread.

Because we could not believe how well Bubble Buster worked, we extensively tested Bubble Buster before releasing it. Part of that testing included submerging wet epoxy completely in a cup of Bubble Buster – the epoxy cured just fine. We also tested it by spraying Bubble Buster on wet epoxy every 5 minutes for 2 hours – again it cured just fine. We also tested it by spraying it about 20 times on wet epoxy when the epoxy was first applied as well as half-cured epoxy – again the epoxy cured just fine. We tested all the major brands of epoxy and had no problems with any.

Bubble Buster is a great product for releasing bubbles in epoxy rod finish when the use of an open flame is not allowed or a good idea. See it in action at:
[www.youtube.com]

If you have not tired it yet, you can order it online at:
[www.mudhole.com]

Regards.
Team Mud Hole Custom Tackle
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One more item to 'clean' before use is the exacto / cutting blades. When I replace a blade at the beginning of starting a rod, I clean that blade thoroughly before use as many of them have some form of lubricant on them. So if you lay that blade on the threads to trim the tag end, well you now have contaminated those threads if you didn't clean the blade first.

Well....Mudhole is right, the bubble buster won't cause fish eyes, but how you use it will. If you squeeze abit to hard, a mist of alcohol can hit the finish. Especially if you tilt the bottle enough to get the alcohol up high enough in the cap area. Try squeezing a few times against a piece of black paper, do it like you would on your finish, with the bottle held at that awkward angle you use when trying to get a 5" spray bottle under a 5" dryer to flame the finish. Using a bubble buster is one of those live and learn things, see the spray once and you won't do it again!

I am still on my first bottle of Bubble Buster. It is about 2/3rds empty. So far i like the product very much and several times I have under bubbled and over busted with no ill effects. (?) huh

Bill

Ohio Rod Builders

Canton, Ohio

Thanks for the input. I wouldn't want to impugn the reputation of Bubble Buster or Mud Hole. I have great respect for Mud Hole and am sure they sell only good stuff. I don't have trouble with fish eyes, so I was surprised when my epoxy wanted to migrate. The only difference I am aware of was this is my first try with the spray. For my first try I probably was way too close to the surface and really hosed down the epoxy. I sanded and wiped and did a do over with the 6 inches recommended and things were greatly improved. Just a few small areas of epoxy migration. I have sanded and wiped again and am on trial # 3.

I realize a trial sample of ONCE isn't 'real science' and my problem could well be major contamination from another source and nothing to do with the Bubble Buster.

My bubbles stem from a pretty fancy wrap with several layers of thread, some being metallics, but the bubbles were not the issue- they went away just fine. The issue was the migration of the epoxy from whatever contaminated the thread leaving good sized bare spots.

I was just wondering if there is a learner's curve to this product. It surely does help with bubbles. I appreciate Mud Hole's comments above and suspect my contamination came from an unknown source.

Thanks to all,

Pesco Ergo Sum

If you have "migrating" epoxy and bare spots the likely culprit is silicon -- possibly from the thread itself. Some threads are treated to slip with less friction through sewing and (especially) embroidery machines. When you burnish the treated thread you can move concentrations of the additive along the wraps which when epoxy is applied leaves you with areas that have little or no finish on them. If your first coat of epoxy was thin - a second coat MAY (or may not) solve the problem.

Just to make things clear for those that may not realize what has been said here. I think there are those of you that may not realize that a "Bubble Buster" and "Bubble Buster Spray" are two different things. The Bubble Buster is a small squeezable bottle containing alcohol and produces a flame when squeezed on the order of a small blow torch. The spray refered to is a product sprayed directly on the finish and has no flame associated with it.

Guys, I'm in the sailing/sail making/racing bottom business. When I use epoxy it's on LOTS of surface area. The best thing I've ever found for busting all bubbles quickly is a plane old blow dryer. All you have to do is slowly move it over the surface and the fast increase in the surface temperature expands the air in the bubbles while at the same time momentarily thinning the top film. The bubbles will disappear before your eyes in mere seconds and you didn't have the hot air on the spot in question long enough to heat the whole thing up and possible cause a run.

I agree - the only problems occur when too much heat is used. Rule of thumb (for me) seems to be that if the finish really starts to run a lot then I wind up with micro bubbles in the finish (when not using CP). Which is why I prefer using a crafter's embossing gun (lower temperature than a conventional heat gun with just as much air flow.

Ahhh............................ notice that I didn't say heat gun, I said "plane old blow dryer"! Even with one of these, it only takes a swipe or two over the area and all bubbles are popped without overheating the epoxy.

Heat guns can be dangerous tools in the hands of some, no matter what their use!!!!!

David just watch out for blowing dust

Good Wraps Bob

Yes, the work area must be clean, and hopefully little air movement!