If you specified what you wanted, and it was in writing, ???? Customer service seems lacking here. Lost your number? So he had to make a snap decision on the fly? Was a spiral wrap a better option? Lots of chances for getting the rod built and having a phone call or two to clarify just seems like good business. Good luck, maybe the builder did you a favor. However, I hate it when I get something different on a custom project. I am paying for it. Should be what I wanted. Good luck. John

On a rod that light weather it be spinning or casting double foot runners is insain !!
You should have be notified if any changes were to be made PERIOD.

You are paying for a black Chevy and your getting a blue Ford.

I would not take it.

Weather he likes what you want or not - it is your rod. All he should have done is explain the difference . -- But build it your way.

have him fix it --- I always explain differences between guides handle material and the like. Make suggestions but that's all.

Bill - willierods.com

Where does this guy LIVE? Also who or what company told him to change the guides. It almost sounds like He had those guides laying around and did not order any. Also I would judge his ability to design a blank, how long has He been building/designing It almost sounds like he is a copy cat builder.Right now I am redoing a 81/2 ft. 2pcs. 6 to8# Lamie. The original rod had double ft. guides. You can not believe the action, when I changed to single foot guides, much improved. I also did some tweaking to the spacing. I also added 3 extra guides and did it in a Acid Wrap. I do have 3 back guides that are double foot, these are the transition guides.

Good Wraps Bob

Hay Bob

The whole thing is he wanted single foot for I guess runners. He did not do it

Paid for a Red Chevy got a Black Ford ???? And you want my money ???

Bill - willierods.com

Bill Like I said in my last comment I just used single foot runners on a 81/12ft rod no problems. I would like to know how long this guy has been building rods, Who told him they wont work? IT ALSO SOUNDS LIKE HE WAS COPY CAT BUILDING! A guide does not give a rip on what kind of blank they are put on. If done correctly they well work on any blank with in reason. I think the gentleman got shafted. An the builder already had the doubles. ANY GOOD BUSINESS PERSON lets the customer know if there is a change to be made before proceeding

Good Wraps Bob

TLSG vs TLNSG
Only one letter difference in the model designstion.
Could have been mis read by dozens or concluded they were the same.
Your builder may have also been a non-confrontational person and assumed a typo.
Most people believe double foot guides are better and should be recognized as a better quality build.
Your builder may have believed he was building you a better rod, In which case he didn't need to alert you of the change. After all he was doing more work for the same fee.
Your builder may be concerned the guide frames should be consistent on a custom built rod.
The guides you requested may have had an availability issue and your builder was sent a "better" guide for the same price in a reduced time frame.

I don't believe your builder did it for the express reason of making you angry. Simply errors in communication which happen to us all.

You will do what you choose as far as accepting or rejecting the completed rod.
The rod may in fact be very well built. In which case accept the rod , pay for the build and chalk up one for experience. It may fish well too. Do express to him your anxiety and the reason you felt the guide specs were of such importance. I'm sure a future occurance wil not happen if he is made aware of "WHY" you choose the guide specs you asked for.

One question though. If the guide train spec's were of such a high priority why did you allow him to place the order, rather than you suppling them as well as the other components ??
No nasty intentions meant. You had your own priorities to deal with.

Just a little different perspective. Not saying I am on one side or the other. Errors in communication are present for us all and getting angry doesn't help. Relax and resolve the problem to the benefit of both.

Eugene Moore

From what I gather the builder just changed the original plans with out consulting with Greg, I now believe he needs to make it right. When I take an order for a rod and I feel the customers wishes are not going to lead to a good build I discuss it with them. I would not and will not make changes to a build with out discussing it with the customer.

Greg, if you are not in a hurry let him redo the section and then find another builder in the future.

You don't use double foots on a rod that's 9'6", 4-8lb, and only 1.7oz!!!! That's just my opinion.......


He's been building for at least 15-20 years. I've seen rods he's completed, and they're well done. We had extensive conversations before I even agreed to let him have the build, in which he assured me that since the rod is really for the customer, it's fine however they want it. I'm savvy enough when it comes to rod building that I'm not going to get tricked and talked into something. He was pretty accurate and spot-on with the information he was giving me about building. It sounded similar to my own style. I kind of gave him a little "quiz" of sorts before I agreed to have him build it. He answered my questions well.

I'm not going to name names. I will tell you all what I "know" (what he said happened anyway). Whether he's being honest with me or not is certainly unknown to me.

He does not stock many (any?) TiSic guides, so he had to order mine. He claims that the guides were ordered from Angler's Workshop. When on the phone ordering from them, he was told that the guides I wanted wouldn't match up well. He was told that the double foots would be better. He also claims that Angler's did not have enough of the 6's I wanted in stock, so he had to make a decision on the fly. (Uh....get them from another vendor?! How about that decision??) He says that since he was told the weight savings would be minimal, It wouldn't really make a difference on the build.
............
SIDE NOTE: About two-three weeks ago, he told me a "similar" story about the guides not being available when he tried ordering them (the first time?) but they were on their way now. He failed to tell me at the time the the guides coming were not the ones I asked for. That is something that REALLY bothers me.
.............

That's all I know about the "why" of the guide change. He does admit that he made a mistake and should never have made the decision. Regardless, it's done now. He claims to be working on my solution. I'm not confident it will resolve itself to the specifications I originally asked for in my detailed 2 page letter. I did resend the letter, via email, on Friday. I asked that the letter be used to check the existing work.

I'm due a phone call tomorrow AM. We'll see if it comes, and if it does, will it be good news or more "delays."

Thanks again for all the support here. Who knows, I might be looking for a guy to FIX the rod when this one's done...

Greg

Greg Foy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Greg,
>
> Can you go check out the rod? Can you cast it and
> flex it as part of the negotiation? I agree with
> Roger, things go wrong all the time and it is not
> the end of the world, but this didn't go according
> to plan. Start over from here and see if the rod
> works as built. Try it out with the casting
> guides. I see on Lamiglas' website the 9'6" extra
> light is not available as a casting rod. I don't
> know but there may be issues.
>
> Greg


The only issue is that Lamiglas is not convinced that the rod would sell enough . I've had extensive talks with someone from Lamiglas about the blank and why there is not a light steelhead baitcaster in their lineup. He told me that there have been NUMEROUS attempts to get one into production, but the demand is just not enough so every time the issue comes up, it slowly sags and gets put on a far back burner. IF they thought they could make money with it, it would have been built - and on that blank.

Here's hoping all works out well (for both of you). I don't stock a lot of Fuji SIC guides either but I know several of the distributors (to the left) do have them and they could have been ordered / received in the style you wanted.

Sense Greg has the vender's name I would call them and discuss the problem

Good Wraps Bob

Jeesh...2 pages and nobody said what should be said. On a rod that long, you WON'T notice any difference in weight or cast ability with the doubles. If you don't want the rod don't take it!

if you put 8 single foot guides on any rod then 8 double foot on the same rod --- I say you will have two different types of action and weight. 8 double foot's are almost like 16 single foot's. more thread, more finish heaver tip section less performance.

Then again you WANT SINGLE FOOT GUIDES
A blank flexes - best - with no guides at all. But you need them. Like tying a small stone on the tip . maybe not that bad - but enough.

I got a bridge I can sell you LOL

Bill - willierods.com

Grant that was mentioned earlier. Besides the guy wanted his rod built his way. If there was going to be a problem with the guides, it should have been brought up on the first contact. Greg stated the guy has nearly 20 plus years building rods. If there was going to be a problem it should have been brought up at that time. I know the guys at Anglers workshop and they all build rods. From what Greg said they did not have all the guides he needed, So they changed the order from singles to doubles. I can understand that. But His builder also stated those guides will not work after talking with AW. For my self I have used as many a 4 different guide styles on a 9 foot medium Ironhead drift rod. Other than looking strange the rod works great. I guess my point is, if the build is done right any guide will work. I think the builders excuse was lame. I think if it were me I would contact AW and say I have this blank and reel seat. If I use these type of guides will it function correctly, if not why? Like many posts We do not have all the information and at times things do get confused in translation

Good Wraps Bob

Bill the more wraps you have the soft the rod becomes. In my comment about using 3 different styles of guides on a rod::) smiling. I did it for a lark to start with. (WALL HANGER), then I got curious and took it out winter Steelhead fishing, casting was fair fish fighting was within reason. So in my humble round basket opinion that is not chiseled in stone most guides will work. Question is why will these guides not work. I think I would have built a Acid or a drunk rod (my name for the wrap) out of them. I don't live in Souther Cal. The WAers I know that fish, drink more than drug. ::)))

Good Wraps Bob

It all makes no sense at all.

It was not built to the -- Customers -- specks Like it or not !!

Nuff Said. period

Bill - willierods.com

:::))))) the response too this posts has generated more comments than anyone post in the past. We all share like it or not::::)))))Good, Bad or indiffernt

Good Wraps Bob

GRANT:

All due respect but this quote of yers, "On a rod that long, you WON'T notice any difference in weight or cast ability with the doubles. If you don't want the rod don't take it!" is very innaccurate, and is quite to contrary.

With twice the wraps, thread,and finish the action will be dampend exponentially with a long rod. I know cause I build 13-17 foot floats rods exclusivley. Every little addition is cummalative and is especially felt with long, light action rods....


Paul

The further you move that weight from the angler, the more difference it makes. Longer rods, particularly those that are not exceptionally stout, are very much subject to a noticeable change in speed (response and recovery) from any additional weight.

...............

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The further you move that weight from the angler,
> the more difference it makes. Longer rods,
> particularly those that are not exceptionally
> stout, are very much subject to a noticeable
> change in speed (response and recovery) from any
> additional weight.
>
> ...............


The recovery time on this rod especially will see a BIG difference. That was one of the selling point for the bank. It's light, crisp, and with the right guides, would make a GREAT steelie rod for what I need it to do. If I were to dampen the recovery, it would actually affect my fishing.


I was supposed to get a call this AM from the builder.....I took a bet with a friend....we both won - no call. I'm about to figure out just why I didn't get a call this morning. Again, I'll let you all know the out come.


(Part of me wants to blurt the name of this guy all over this thread.....but then I remember I'm a nice guy. We'll see how long that lasts....)