Sooooo......

I recently had a rod built by (shall remain nameless) and he seemed to be a great fit for a build I was in need of. I provided a letter detailing almost every aspect of the build. I even supplied the butt cap, rear grip, reel seat, and foregrip. I detailed the guides to use: type and sizes. I didn't specify the spacing, as I didn't think it was necessary given his level of rod building knowledge.

After 3 excuses and over 5 weeks, I finally have a rod - well, almost. It's not here yet. The epoxy is drying.....

As I am told, I should be "really pleased with this build." "But you'll notice something right off the bat; the guides aren't what you wanted." HUH WHAT THE......??
Instead of 6 and 7 single foot TLSG's, double foot 6 and 7 TLNSG's were used. There would have been nine does that way in total.

This irks me since I believe it would adversely affect the action of the rod. It's a 9'6" Lami XMG50 blank 96 LL (4-8lb).

There were two other, albeit "okay'd" changes to the rod. The problem lies in that there were multiple excuses and all explaining why the rod was not finished.....


What should I do?? What should I expect from the builder? (I'm not a confrontational guy, but this was special to me and I'm REALLY upset.)

It sounds to me like there was a communication breakdown somewhere along the way. A good builder will work up an order sheet or commission statement at the time the order is placed. It will list the specifics of the rod, including the parts and pieces that will be used. It should give you a delivery date and a firm price. He should provide such a thing and if not you should request it. Buyers and sellers always share in the responsibility of any such work commission. It doesn't matter how good he may be as a builder - if he doesn't do this, he has a ways to go as a businessman.

Trying to straighten out such miscommunication after the fact is always more trouble than getting things straight and on paper beforehand. But that's where you're at. So, if you're not satisfied with the rod you have the option of not paying for it. If you have already paid for it, or left a deposit, then you'll have to discuss the matter with the builder and see if he'll do what it takes to satisfy you.

The problem for you, and perhaps him, is that without a written contract there is no proof of a "meeting of the minds." I poke fun at one dealer quite often about her penchant for watching Judge Judy. As she likes to say - "Show me the contract." Without such a thing, there is little recourse possible.

.................

Greg,
I agree with Mr. Kirkman on this one.
If the client is local, there is a complete description of the rod and its components, before the build is started.

If the client is remote, all elements of the rod are documented via e-mail, with both the client and myself agreeing on all items before the build starts.

--
You didn't say in your post, but was your rod a spinning or a casting rod.
If the rod was a spinning rod, I really have to agree with your issues. If, on the other hand, the rod is a casting rod - it might be an ok change. It is still different from what you wanted, but I expect, that if the rod is a casting rod, it will work very well.

Roger

I also agree with Tom. If the builder changed any thing, He should have notified You right away. An explained the change. What was his excuses? It sounds like a case for Judge Judy or Nancy Grace They don't like useless excuses. Excuses are like backsides everyone has one

Good Wraps Bob

The rod was built as a casting rod. I wanted single foot TLSGs on there - not the TLNSGs that were used. The extra wrapping would certainly make an adjusted action on the rod, which I did not want to do. It took a long time to figure this out for me.


The "excuse" was that the guides wouldn't transition and line up correctly regarding height.....at least, that's what he was told when he was ordering the guides in. He said he needed to make a decision on the order, so he just "went with it" thinking it was okay. He admitted it was a mistake.

Regardless of the guides lining up right or not (which I can't verify one way or the other) I wouldn't have expected a change to be made without asking me first! ARGH


Ok, so can anyone confirm that the TLNSG do or do not work with TLSG's? Maybe I should post this in another thread as a separate question.....I'll do that too...

Depending on the complexity of the build (type of handle assembly / material to be used) and any additional "fancy work" a time line of 5 weeks isn't really unreasonable for a custom rod. Absent knowing what type of rod you wanted (casting or spinning) the builder MAY have been right in changing type and number of guides - again this is dependent on the rod during any stress testing and handle/reel seat placement. As Roger said as a conventional rod it MAY be better as built than what you envisioned. Again absent the reasons for any delay - the extended delivery time MAY be warranted. HOWEVER - the builder should have explained what he was changing and why he was recommending the changes before proceeding. If you disagreed with his proposed changes (in guide type for example) then you could have clarified the issue. In my opinion IN NO CASE should the builder have sent you an email with "but you'll notice something right off the bat, the guides aren't what you wanted" . THAT should have been resolved before the guides were put on the rod blank. In some way I empathize with the builder on time / delay. Delays happen all the time - some are under the builder's control (drying and curing times, assembly) and some are not (parts availability, illness).
At this point about all you can do is await delivery, check the fit & finish and "fishability" of the finished product. If you have provided a deposit you may have to forfeit that. If it is definitely NOT what you had in mind at all and does not meet your original detailed letter you should negotiate (phone followed up with email) - perhaps return this one for a rod built exactly as per original letter for the same price absent any original deposit?

///whoops we were both typing ///



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2010 10:06PM by Ken Preston.

Greg,

What guides and sizes did you request, other than the TLSGs? The double foot guides will work just as well as they always have, but will add a bit of extra weight in the tip section. The penalty for extra weight in the tip section of a rod is slowed response (longer to damp vibrations), and a bit smaller amplitude for vibrations traveling through the blank. Fortunately, they are titanium frames, so the penalty isn't as severe as it would be with steel frames. The changes may be hardly noticeable, but you won't know until you get your hands on the rod. Personally, I wouldn't have used double foots on the tip section of a 4-8lb. blank, but give it a shot and let us know how it works out.

Joe

Oops, your other thread answered my question.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2010 10:01PM by Joe Vanfossen.

The time frame isn't what bothers me; although, when you tell me it's going to be done "by this weekend" and it takes two more weeks, then I'm going to think something is fishy....
The builder knew his schedule, and shouldn't have offered up excuses - he even claimed to have lost my number/info at one point....very frustrating.

It's not a complex build - it's very straight forward actually. I even mailed all the components, save the GUIDES, for mounting. That should be pretty easy. I understand there is some testing to be done....like I said, I'm not concerned with the 5 weeks.



I posted about the guide selection in another thread. I hope someone takes a look at that too.

I feel bad for you. If it was me, I wouldn't accept it. There is quite a difference between single foot guides and double foots, to me that is unacceptable. I would call him and try and get your money back. Then build it yourself or find a builder who won't give you the runaround.

Lets get one thing straight. A guide does not care what style is going to be put on a blank. Any basic guide style well work just as long as they have a equal equivalent transition from large to small. I do not think that you well notice the difference. In any case I believe you should have been notified first. I don't believe He was not given the opportunity to make the decision first before placing the order, something is not Kosher

Good Wraps Bob

Greg why did you not build the rod yourself?

Good Wraps Bob

GREG...

I feel your pain and I would not accept the rod period. The double foot guides are going to add a HUGE amount of weight to the rod as the need for double the thread, double the finish and double the size and weight in guides.

You hit the nail on the head with single foot guides-as it's only a 4-8# rod.

IMHO, this rod is going to feel like a wet noodle-which is what the builder should be beat with...

Hope I didn't sugar-coat anything.

Paul

Sorry, now I'm confused. The way I read it was- instead of using a couple double foot guide then transitioning to single foots the rest of the way, he used double foot guides all the way. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

Stan, you're correct. The build was supposed to be two double foots then singles the rest of the way. That's what I asked for - in a detailed letter explaining the build completely. He built it with double foots all the way out, citing that a "certain shop" told him the guides would not match up.

There is a viable solution, which I am giving him the opportunity to explore. Since the lami blanks are matched together by hand from bins?? He can get a matching tip section via Lamiglas by sending them the butt and then build the tip section up again. Since the butt was built with the correct two guides, the two double foots, all is not lost.

He agreed to explore that option, and said he'd "expedite" it since it was his fault to begin with. I'm just not holding my breath...

This build meant a lot to me as I have not had time to finish other builds I've started. With a full time job with extra responsibilities, a few kids, including a brand new-born, moving to a new place, and other "stuff" I haven't had the time or resources to take this on. And with the steelie season upon me, I really wanted to get it taken care of so I could fish it this season.


Thanks for all the support here fellas. I'm a non-confrontational person, but this really got me going. I'll post the outcome as soon as I have more info.

Thanks again!!

Greg Reali
Sac, CA

Greg, my name is Greg, also. I have a boat I want to sell. Do you want to buy it, sight unseen? Great, I will send some photos taken within the last 5 years. They show how great the boat is. Send a check. Is it sent yet? Yet? How about now? Where's the check?

Greg I hope he did not charge a arm and a leg.How faraway does this builder live? There are some vary excellent builders in the Sac area. Where are you getting your parts from? I heard that a new rod component shop opened up in the Sac area after the rod Rack closed down in the South Bay area

Good Wraps Bob



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2010 08:35AM by Tom Kirkman.

Greg,
First of all, this is a fishing rod. It is not a life threatning situation, or any thing to lose sleep over.
Many many many casting rods have been built with double foot guides from the reel to the tip and they all catch fish just fine.

Yes, you have a touch more tip weight on the rod and the action will be a bit slower, but that may not be a bad thing for this particular blank.

If the builder has agreed to obtain a tip section and put on single foot guides for you. Great. Take both tip sections and use the rod each way and compare the difference.

You will see that there will be a difference, but will it cause you to not catch as many fish with one tip section as with the other tip section? I doubt it.

Did the buidler do what you wanted - No. Do you want to use the builder again for a build? It is up to you.

Having a rod built is nothing different than having someone else do a particular job for you as you go through your life. It is no different than hiring the neighbor boy to do the lawn. You give the young man to pick up the clippings and he doesn't. What do you do.

You either have him do it again, or you live with the clippings until the lawn is done the next time.

What do you do when the painter comes and paints your house, and he paints it red instead of white. What do you do? Do you live with the red house, or do you have him repaint it.

You hired a fellow to do a job. You either live with the job, have the job done over, or not accept the job and get your money back.

No sense to lose sleep over it or get hung up on it.

Things happen in life. Use it as a life lesson. Fortunately no one was hurt or injured as a result of the miscommunication between the client and builder.

Develop and implement a plan to deal with the situation and go back to your family and job and don't lose any sleep or your temper over the situation.

No matter what the other posters have said, the rod will catch fish just fine. If you want to use the rod, as built, use it. If you are unhappy with the rod, either have it fixed, or don't accept it.

Have a happy holidy and enjoy your children and life.

Roger

My guess is that the builder felt the single foot fly guides would be too low to the blank and was concerned about the line hitting or dropping below the blank, or that he would have to use more of the guides to achieve proper line flow. Perfect rod for a spiral wrap though!

I have seen factory rods using single foot fly guides on the tip section and depending how the rod is flexed, the line will often hit the blank or even drop below it. Not a good scenario IMHO.

I would ask him for the name of the shop and then call them myself to see why they said it would not transition properly. Then you will know

Greg,

Can you go check out the rod? Can you cast it and flex it as part of the negotiation? I agree with Roger, things go wrong all the time and it is not the end of the world, but this didn't go according to plan. Start over from here and see if the rod works as built. Try it out with the casting guides. I see on Lamiglas' website the 9'6" extra light is not available as a casting rod. I don't know but there may be issues.

Greg