Michael,
Very good post except for the error in feet. Done that myself many times and probably not the last.
Actually a 50 feet per sec cast is quite slow at only 34 MPH.
Arm motion speeds in sports can be upwards of 100 MPH depending on the load.
Rod tip speeds can also run to 100 MPH if the rod is stout and the arm is capable.
This reduces to effect of gravity considerably as your time factor will decrease by a factor of 3 at the start of the cast.
The rotational effect of pulling line from the spool has the largest dynamic component at the start of the cast and based on spool dia can exceed 10,000 RPM. Think of the rotational speed of a string trimmer.

Eugene Moore

The new concept is based on the reel diameter and is specific to each reel. The best test is for you to test cast and see if you are happy. Link to the new concept [www.rodbuilding.org] rodbuilding article. Supposed to increase hook setting power and line casting distance. May only increase fuji guide sales. John

Russell Brunt Wrote:
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> Bill, if you take a bullet out of the
> cartridge....and drop it from the same height as a
> bullet shot from a horizontal barrel....which one
> reaches the ground first?

I'll answer this for Bill - they'll hit the ground at the same time, if dropped at the same time.

Mike,

When you decide on on your guide spacings could I ask you to post them here? I would be interested in comparing them to those I posted in response to your thread around the 10th of last month.

Regards,
Hans

Russell, you are right. I forgot to convert in the second equation. .014 feet = .17 inch, which IMHO does get gravity into it somewhat. Sorry for the error.


Someone out there should have an idea of how fast the line goes in the early stages of a cast? I also believe 50 feet per second is slow. I got the 50 ft per second from estimating a cast of 100 feet took about 4 seconds, then used 50 as the average (didn't have better data). I really think the speed at the start of the cast is much more than 50 ft per second which would take the .17 inch down significantly. I still believe, without having as compelling an argument as I thought, that line dynamics is the major issue on efficient line travel through the guides. Regardless, the using of the new concept method as shown in the library does result in some pretty well performing rods.

I told a local builder about it-he hadn't been exposed to it before. He went to the library and built his next rod for a guy who was going to Canada. When the guy got back he said to the builder that he had never had a rod that would cast so far. Not scientific, but still nice to hear the builder's first rod was so well accepted.

Tim

Who was that Newtons Law

Bill - willierods.com

Michael....just to pick some numbers.....If your 50 feet per second is low by a factor of three....and the line is at an agle of 45 degrees.....and we take into account that we are not in a vacuum so lead and feathers aren't falling at the same speed.....then real conditions might be a whole lot different. Personally I don't think gravity matters in terms of the line. Lure yes, line no. Do remember that once the cast is underway line is being pulled off the reel and tension on the line would trump gravity.

I have my own ideas about casting performance. IMHO it is about what I'd call a rod's "recovery time". That would be the time it takes to go from a fully loaded rod (during a cast) to a totally straight rod. Then we have to look at any tendenacy to overshoot which I think is number one reason for backlashes on baitcasters.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

I posted a response earlier, but somehow it's not here, so I'll do another-You're right Russell, .014 feet, or .168 inches. Sorry about the error, didn't convert feet in the second equation.

I still think line dynamics is the major issue, not gravity. I also think my cast velocity is lower than actual for most cases, but I was estimating what I thought was conservatively.

The bottom line is still true, and it is that building to the NC as shown in the Library results in rods that cast very well, and nothing I've done that doesn't comply with NC has been as good. I told a local builder about it, got him to the Library, and he made his first NC rod for a client to use in Canada. The client came back and told the builder he had never had a rod that cast so far.

Oops-didn't notice the second page. I'll have to get out the rubber hammer and reset my brain.

bill boettcher Wrote:
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> Tim
>
> Who was that Newtons Law


No, that was Common Sense Law.

Hans:

I have done all of the trim wraps on the rod, and took it out to show the fellow I am building it for. He took one look at it, and said now that he has seen it, He is going to buy a new reel for the rod. So I am back to square one with the set up. I will post the new measurements as soon as I have the new reel.

Mike Bradfrod
R.M.B. Fishing Rods
Nampa, Idaho