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Suggested butt guide size
Posted by: Charles Horan (---.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
Date: November 04, 2010 10:30PM

Just a quick question about the butt guide on a spinning rod.

I'm building on a Calstar T130 seven foot glass rod, rated 4 to 12 pounds. It can be fished at 10 pounds quite comfortably. I intend to use 8 and 10 pound mono. The largest reel I will use is an Okuma baitrunner reel called a Coronado 50 with a spool outside diameter of 2.08 inches.
I am using Fuji BYAG guides, trying to do the new concept setup.

I am going down to size six running guides.

My question is: What would be a recommended size and placement from the reel face for the butt guide. I know I will have to test cast and tweak, just looking for a starting point. I built a similar rod on a Lamiglass blank (I think it is an 843?) and started with a size 25. I just casted that rod with the Coronada 50 with ten pound mono, and got no line slap between the reel and first guide. I then put a coronado 30 with 8 pound on and got an appreciably longer cast.
I'm wondering if that necessarily implies that I need to use a size 30 on the one I'm building?

Lastly, I am making a cork handle. I like them fairly long, about 12 inches behind the reelseat (Fuji DPMS, size 18). Using the 27x formula, this will put the choker out about 56 inches from the spool face, or about 72 inches from the butt. This means about 12 inches of running guides.
Does this sound odd?



Thanks a million as always.
Charles Horan

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Re: Suggested butt guide size
Posted by: Lou Auret (204.16.161.---)
Date: November 05, 2010 08:00AM

That size 50 reel for 8 or 10 LB line on a 7 ft rod sounds like its on the large side to me. Maybe its a species/fishing technique specific requirement but if not i would be looking at a size 25 or 30 reel tops.Smaller if you are using braid and or Daiwa reels as they have deeper spools. The lower diameter, longer spooled reel will cast further many times and reel manufacturers often tout that in their designs: compare a mitchell avocet with a 308 of years ago.
As to the choker being near the tip, if you go for a size 80 reel and a long enough butt section it could easily fall beyond the tip.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2010 08:14AM by Lou Auret.

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Re: Suggested butt guide size
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: November 05, 2010 08:31AM

8lb line is going to cast further than 10lb line of the same brand and type no matter what you do. However, it would only take a few minutes to try a size 30 and see if it picks things up for you with the 10lb.


..................

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Re: Suggested butt guide size
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: November 05, 2010 09:20AM

Charles,
With respect to guide size and placement, I suggest that you simply place, test, change, and test to get the optimum spacing and setup for your setup.
My favorite reel by far - for this particular setup that you are running is one of the bass pro, or us reels large spool reels.
These are very light compact reels, with very very large shallow spools. The small reel gives 31 inches of line retreive per revolution of the handle. The result is a very very quick retreive. Also, due to the very large diameter spool there are fewer total wraps of line for a given cast, and hence- further casting distance with the same casting effort.
I used to be an advocate of the small diameter long spools, which were a big improvement over the short, small shallow spools.
But the new large diameter light reels are an even bigger improvement for casting distance.
But, as a result of these very large spools, I tend to go to a large size butt guide to avoid line and guide line slap. I seldom go any smaller than a size 25 and generally use a size 30 or even larger to mitigate these issues with this particular reel.

For distance, I generally use a rough guide of butt placement of 20 inches from the face of the spool. Then, depending on where the line ends up hitting the guide, or guides, on a straight pull off of each side of the reel - I will adjust the guide up and down the rod.

I generally look for a straight line from the top of the spool to the tip of the rod, and look to see that the line can run from the top of the line spool to the tip of the rod, without actually touching any guides. The same holds true when the line is on the bottom of the reel.
I have found that if I set up the guides in this fashion, I have maxed out my casting distance, as well as minimized my line retreive effort on a light load or non fish load. i.e. when retreiving my line with little line pressure from the lure, I would like the line to flow cleanly from the tip of the rod, to the reel face without being deflected by any guide along the way. I beleive that if a guide is deflecting the line as it is being retreived, it is taking extra effort and thus tending to minimize casting distance.

An example of the reel of which I speak:

[www.basspro.com]




or

[www.basspro.com]

or
[www.basspro.com]

This reel comes in three price ranges. The basic difference is the number of bearings in the reel, or some other fit and finish differences. All essentially the same dimensions, just different mechanical and or cosmetic differences.

The us reel is essentially the same reel as the bass pro reels. I don't know which came first, but if you like a different brand reel for essentially the same model, the us reel spinning reel is essentially the same reel as listed above:


[www.cabelas.com]

Again, as I pointed out earlier, the use of the short compact body, large diameter shallow spool allows for a very light reel design with extreme casting distance ability and very quick line retrieive.

I find this style reel vastly superior when I am fishing pods of fish at some distance from the boat or my casting position. I can cast past the school of spooky fish, slowly work the school, and then quickly retreive the long distance that I am away from the school to avoid spooking and make another cast. When I used similar tactics with a small size 20 or 25 sized reel with a typical line retreive of 15-18 inches per turn of the crank, I would come home at the end of a long day with a sore wrist due to the amount of cranking done during the day. This doesn't happen any longer with the much quicker retreive of these reels.

Give one a try and see what you think.

--
But as noted before, due to the relatively large diameter of the spools, a different butt guide is really in order when using such reels to optimize your casting ability. Either higher butt guides, further from the spool, or larger diameter more conventional butt guides at semi standard distances from the spool.

Take care

Roger

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Re: Suggested butt guide size
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: November 05, 2010 10:03AM

A larger spool on a spinning reel will result in less, not more, casting distance. It is the size of the coils, not the number of them, that influence distance to the greatest extent.

.............

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Re: Suggested butt guide size
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: November 05, 2010 08:20PM

Tom,
That could very well be.
However, there must be some reson that my large spool spinning reels outcast my smaller casting reels by a very large margin.

Roger

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Re: Suggested butt guide size
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: November 05, 2010 08:42PM

I wish you could have been at the casting competition last year to see the dismal results the large spool reels turned in.

.............

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Re: Suggested butt guide size
Posted by: Charles Horan (---.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
Date: November 07, 2010 03:55PM

Thanks to all for your perspectives.

Roger, I'm having a little problem following your post. Are you saying that in your setup that if you stretch the line out with the reel on the rod, and have the spool at it's highest point (I asume mean the portion of the spool closest to the rod) that the line will pass through the center of the guides? My set usually has the line closest to the bottom of the guides (bottom meaning the part of the ring furthest from the rod, i;e., closest to the water when holding the rod in fishing position).

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Re: Suggested butt guide size
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: November 08, 2010 07:52AM

The line won't pass through the center of the guides on the cast - gravity prevents that pretty quickly. It will run along the bottom edge as you mention.

Trying to set things up so that the line will pass down an imaginary line through the center of the rings will require unusually large rings or high frames, moreso that are commonly available.

..................

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