Oh come on Ed. Since it was I that used the term Gents I feel I am being called out. My post was aimed at others not needing to rehash details already posted.

Ed, my interest is in seeing you appreciate what I have, the joy of building yourself a superior rod. If you look over what I have posted the intent has been to get at the root cause of the failure. I never once suggested you were the root cause. I did feel something "extraordinary" was at play though.

Before you did reveal some behavior that could be considered reasonable cause for a rod to fail. I hope you have looked into that info. I think if you buy from one of the vendors on the left and pay attention to guide foot dressing, static testing and guide placement, wrapping tension, and rod handling/transport techniques, etc......well, you will be sold on your first rod like all the rest of us fools. Besides, no company has enough money to pay all of us to say their blanks are da bomb if they all break like "dry twigs for no reason":) So yes, give it another try. Just do it a little different maybe.

Now are we friends or will it be the dueling pistols at ten paces?

Russ in Hollywood, FL.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2010 10:11PM by Russell Brunt.

ED

I am wondering, if the rods both broke 18" back and between guides, could that spot have been a "Hinge Point" and the guides should have been laid out so that a guide sits at that spot. It is really hard for use to make a definitive statement as to the actual cause of the break. God knows we, by taking the time to post, do try.

Kerry

Ed,
You mention - "Sam lifted a Crappie from the water" when the rod broke.

Out of curiosity, was the rod vertical, with the crappie hanging on the line?

The reason that I ask this question is that is exactly what happened to me when I broke a rod on a Crappie.

i.e. I lifted the Crappie from the water, and was holding the rod vertical when the rod snapped. Of course, in reality, this is a perfect example of "high sticking" With the light action rod that I was using, the weight of the large crappie was enough to flex the rod to an angle of about 150 degrees. This is well past the dividing line between "high sticking" or not. Basically, to avoid "high sticking" you should not be flexing the overall rod more than 90 degrees.

I suspect that the reason that the rods were broken was that either there was a manufacturing flaw in the blank, the blank had received damage somewhere between the time that it was manufacuterd and it broke, or it was simply overflexed.

Don't stop building because of these two set backs. I think that most folks who fish a lot and or build rods have broken more than one rod over the years, for a myriad of reasons.

The simple fact is - things can break.

As a fellow told me a long time ago when I fell off a horse. No time like the present to hop back on that horse and get the ride under control.

I think that rod building can be like that. Lots of time it is very enjoyable, but every now and then, you get bucked off and have to pick yourself up and get back on the horse - so to speak.

Be safe

Roger

Ed,

You haven't been attacked here. You are the one doing the attacking by making it appear, twice now, that a blank manufacturer has someone failed to live up to their responsibility by not replacing blanks you claim must have been defective. And only now you state that what you bought were defective blanks which the seller knew were defective. Why didn't you mention that important information in your initial post? Your last post contains information that is completely contrary to what you initially posted here. So don't be upset with any of the fine folks here that took their valuable time to try and help you based on the initial information you provided.

If you "...might try again" perhaps you'll buy first quality blanks from a sponsor to the left and save yourself this type of trouble in the future. That's all anyone here has been trying to do - help you avoid the same problem in the future.

By the way, the information on static testing has been on the library page here for several years.

...................

Ed,
It is interesting that you mention a break that was 18 inches back from the tip.

A few years ago, a very well known blank and rod manufacturer brought a new - very desirable rod blank. It was a 6'6" medium light blank - with an extra fast tip.

This blank manufacturer was just getting into the relm of making extra fast tipped blanks. In this particular case, the blank manufacturer was making the extra fast tip by using a different mandral for the tip section, compared to the rest of the blank.

This difference in mandral for the tip resulted in a very definite discontinuity of blank material at 18 inches from the tip. For our style fishing here in the upper midwest, this blank was one of the most desirable blanks that had come out at that time.

As a result, I purchased many of these blanks and built rods for many very happy customers.

Unfortunately, due to the blank design, I had nearly 50% of these blanks - BREAK = at 18 inches back from the tip. I, along with many others called and talked to the manufacturer. As a result, the manufacturer redesigned his mandral to make the same blank with a different tip design. All of the broken blanks were replaced at no charges and the replacement blanks functioned just fine. I think that I may have had one blank broken after that - and it was not the fault of the blank that it was broken.

So, there is a thing that can be bad blank design and have nothing to do with the seller, or anything else. Just a blank that got out of the factory, before all of the defects were identified and eliminated.

Take care
Roger

Ed We did see it did not accuse you of any wrong doing. What was mentioned was a few reasons why a rod could break. For those of use who have built/redesigned rods for more than a few years and have had the opportunity to go threw a factory , talk to to their designers and watch blanks being made from start to finish have a slight insight what could cause a rod to break. An of course We all have broken a few rods doing some of the fore mentioned reason why blanks/rods break. That is why some builders who do not work for a manufacture have been been asked for their input on what they would like to see in a blank. Manufactures do listen and read these posts. For both rods to break at 18 inches is interesting in its self. All the comments made were speculation on why, sense you posted know pictures or know one could visible see the rod. Another suggestion, look an see if anyone who posted lives near you, call them and see if you guys can get to gather for a look see or call the manufacture or the seller and discuss the situation. Were these blanks sold as seconds? If you like email me, just click on my name an the email address well pop up.

Good Wraps Bob

Ed their are a some great builders in your area (North Georgia and the Copper Basin area) call one of them

Good Wraps Bob

Ed (Roger)
I too had a similar 'unfortunate incident' with a well respected manufacturer's blanks. These too were 6'6" fast tip "new" models - and as this was several years back they MAY have been from the same source as Roger's. Four of ten simply snapped about 16-18" from the tip. I contacted the manufacturer who asked me to return only one of the four broken rods. They replaced all 10 blanks and only asked that I not build on (ie: destroy) the remaining six.. I apologize if my initial post didn't seem to answer your question - but Russ had already provided the Static Deflection test information. Your first post (on this thread) didn't provide very much information regarding how / when the rods "snapped like dry twigs" and so I was only trying to understand the "how" before positing some potential steps that might help you avoid a similar bad experience. I re-read all the other posts here on this thread and I didn't see any one attacking you - only either asking questions or proposing possibilities. I think we've all had rods returned by customers I've broken several myself - and most of the time it was the fisherman's (my) fault and it had nothing to do with the components or the quality of the work or workmanship - and I don't think anyone on this thread was saying that about these rods.

Since the buy sell page is not part of the sponsor list on this forum and is a free public service, why not publicize the person who knowingly sold you bad goods? I would think that Tom would want to weed out any bad eggs that are using the buy sell pages for dishonest purposes.

I don't mind speaking up as the individual from whom Ed purchased these blanks, I have nothing to hide.

I bought those banks quite some time ago from a forum sponsor and from that point on they spent their entire life stored in a PVC tube. The tube itself simply stood in the corner of a room and was rarely even moved from one corner to another. Since they were barely handled they didn't even have the opportunity to be abused, dinged, or even suffer a minor scratch to the finish. Before I sent them I gave them the normal flex from hand pressure we all use to check a blank and they were fine. So to say "He knew he had some defective merchandise" is simply not true. I don't know of any way for me to know I have a defective blank unless it breaks on me, which they didn't.

"It was pointed out that the two part blank construction process used by the manufacturer was actually the cause of both blanks failing."

If that's true it's news to me, and given the popularity of that brand of blanks I'm almost certain something would have been mentioned here about them having a problem with defective blanks, especially since the owners seem very willing to help their customers in any way with their product. It would also mean I have unknowingly sold and still posses a number of defective blanks.

My apologies if the forum is the wrong venue for this post, but I just wanted to put my side of the story out there.

William,

Thanks for speaking up. You certainly shed more light on the situation.

..............

William thank you for chiming in. You need not feel the need to apologize. At know one time those of us who responded to the post Never accused anyone party of selling defective merchandise. What was suggested here was there are many reasons why a rod can break, from the manufacture, to the seller, to the shipper, to the builder and of course the user. Personally when I have a problem with a product I start out with the seller and work forward. I have never made post castizeing a product, shipper or seller. Those type of comments do not belong on this site. In my humble opinion. When a (home built rod fails) it is caused by 2 things, #1 the home builder did not follow correct building procedures or #2 the user did something to cause the rod to fail. This is not to say at times a manufacture defect can fall threw the creaks. Not one builder here who has built rods for many years can say (they have never broken a rod) because they skipped or missed a procedure or how they used it . We have all broken rods. Rod building is a learning process. As for the post about the reason these 2 blanks failed was do to being a 2 piece construction. If that is correct I would contact the manufacture ASP.

Good Wraps Bob

William

Thanks for shedding some light on the topic. Unfortunately it is human nature to blame someone else for a problem, where as that is only correct maybe I estimate 1% of the time.
Kerry