Hello All,

Just wanted to take a moment to make my first post and introduction. I used to build rods, years ago, but it has been probably 20 years since I last put one together. Back then, I used mostly Fenwick and Lamiglass fiberglass blanks. The world has changed a great deal since then! So, I have been reading many of the posts here for the last week or so, just trying to get “caught up” on what is what these days. I have to say, the amount if information, and the amount of knowledge and skill you guys display, makes trying to get “caught up” seem like trying to drink from a fire hose! And a couple of weeks ago, I would have said that I used to “build” rods. Now, after having been exposed to how truly skilled and how much knowledge some of you put into your rods, I would say that I used to “wrap rods” and not even call myself a rod “builder”.

So, anyway, with that out of the way… I’m looking to start building a few rods again!

My first project is going to be a spinning rod, for myself. It will be used to cast mostly ¼ oz. (or smaller) spoons and spinners to trout, primarily in small high country lakes. Will most likely use a Stradic 2500 reel with either 6lb FireLine or 10lb PowerPro.

Most important attribute, for this rod, to me, is distance. After distance, what matters most to me, in descending order, would be durability (it will see some rough travel in my Jeep), sensitivity and lastly price. Oh, and it has to be two piece (to fit in the Jeep…).

With those criteria in mind, I’ve zeroed in on the following blanks for my short list:

St. Croix SC II 2S70MLF2, 1/8 to ½, 4-10lb, ML.
St. Croix SC III 3S70MLF2, 1/8 to 3/8, 4-10lb, ML.
Mudhole MXH, S842-2-MHX, 7’, 1/16-5/16, 4-8, L.

I would very much like to hear and would very much appreciate, opinions on which of these the esteemed members of the forum would choose, based on my criteria? Distance, durability, sensitivity? I don’t mind paying for the SC III. But if the MXH will give as much distance and be more durable too, then I may as well save the difference in cost, right? Or, split the difference with the SCII? It's not that I don't want a sensitive rod, I mean, who doesn't? It's just that I'm willing to give up "some" sensitivity in exchange for increased durability. Life is hard in the back of my Jeep and I'd hate to pay a lot for increased sensitvity, only to have it get broken too soon. But, then again, many of he scenarios I find myself in, distance can be the difference between catching a lot and catching none - so I'd be willing to trade a little durability for more distance. Hope I'm making sense...

Thank you in advance for any comments or suggestions you would be willing to share!

- Dave



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2010 01:34PM by Dave Affleck.

Another one you might check out is the UTSP842F 7' 2 PC. 6-10 LB. from Utmost Enterprises. [www.utmostenterprises.com] I just finished one of these for my dad he fished it for the first time last night so I can't tell you about the durability but the distance and sensitivity was there for sure. he was casting 1/4 oz spoons and he out fished me 5:1

i personally think the 2500 is more reel than you may need and would drop to the 1000 stradic(I use the 1000 and 2500 for redfish and specs). in going to the smaller reel you will change your guide size selection slightly. take a look at the 0 or 1 power rod blanks(720, 781, 840, 841,etc). there are some nice blanks out there by several companies. you may also want to consider using a fly blank. you will have loads of fun with one for that application like a 3 - 5wt if you are throwing 1/4oz. there are so many possibilities with different blanks,reels, and guide set ups.
these are some of my thoughts, but you have picked some nice blanks as well

If you're worried about durability in terms of transporting a rod, why not invest in a rod case for protection while you're traveling.

..............

Like JP I think you'd be better off with the 1000 Stradic - with the diameter line you're proposing to use you will have more than enough line on the reel. I also like your choice of the MHX 842-2. They are very affordable - enough so that you could buy the "Jet Tube" rod kit from MudHole at the same time. These are very well made and with a 3" diameter pipe will accommodate a few rods in their rod socks for transportation as Tom suggested.

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
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> If you're worried about durability in terms of
> transporting a rod, why not invest in a rod case
> for protection while you're traveling.
>
> ..............

That's a fair question, and one I've asked myself. It mostly comes down to convenience (and... being lazy...). Secondarily, storage space in a Jeep is at a premium, a bulky rod case would be problematic at times.

I have not seen a case that would allow me to put the rod in it without breaking it all the way down to include removing the tackle. Such a beast may well exist, I've not looked that hard. But my usual method of operation, is to simply leave the rod completely rigged, only separated into the two pieces. Then, when I want to fish with it, I simply take a couple of seconds to put the two pieces together and I'm in business. When it's time to move on, likewise, it takes only seconds to separate into two pieces (while leaving all the tackle in place) and put it in the back of the Jeep.

Mind you, most often I'm not spending a whole day in one place, but rather bouncing around from lake to lake. If the fish aren't biting pretty good, I'll hop back in the Jeep and move on to another lake and keep repeating that the whole day. Other times, the fishing pole is along "just in case", on what is really a weekend of Jeeping in the mountains. In these instances, it's a matter of getting in a few casts here and a few casts there as the opportunity presents or the mood strikes. In none of these scenarios, would I be willing to monkey around with removing tackle and re-rigging a pole every time I either want to fish or stow the rod, as the case may be.

So, long winded answer, I know. But, bottom line, I guess, is that I'm just too lazy?

- Dave

Good quality tackle deserves at least some amount of care. If you're that lazy then by all means stay away from the better equipment. But I think you may be overlooking some very simple and effective storage options. There are plenty of hard cases that will accept the reel and lure in place, and can easily be fitted into or onto your Jeep. I have one on a bicycle that we sometimes use along the New River Trail. It's just my opinion, but once you spend the money and time on a nice rod it seems reasonable that you'd want to take just a little effort to take care of it.

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Ken Preston Wrote:
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> Like JP I think you'd be better off with the 1000
> Stradic - with the diameter line you're proposing
> to use you will have more than enough line on the
> reel.

Boy, you guys have really got me second guessing myself on the 1000 vs. 2500!

I've actually been using a (cheaper than Stradic) 1000 on a similar rod (now broken...) for years and I always felt it was a good match. When I started looking around to build a new replacement rod and buy a new (higher quality) reel, I was thinking 1000 all the way. The ONLY reason I changed my mind, was I kept reading that the larger spool would give some free casting distance. I've not bought the reel yet, so it's not too late to change my mind. And you guys have me back to thinking that a nice dainty little 1000 would be a better match for the application.

What do you guys think about the distance issue? A real advantage for the larger spool, or not enough to worry about?

Thanks again!

- Dave

Dave -
The MHX blank (rated down to 1/16) with micro guides to keep tip weight down mated with the 1000 will make you happy. As for the protection- with the MudHole Jet Tube you can glue the ends on; notch the top section (and PVC tube) for the reel leg/stem and transport the rod place to place rigged (but broken down to two pieces) with the reel outside the tube.

Dave, read what Tom said as many times as it takes to change your mind set.

A rod that will stand up to the treatment you describe over the long haul would greatly compromise your fishing enjoyment and sucess compared to something that needs a case. A cheap plastic rifle case will do fine and allow you to carry the rod just as you do now. Chances are you might already own one.

I like St. Croix a lot. If you have never used one, go feel one first. IMHO they tend to be a little stout in the tip. Given that you might decide to move down one notch in power.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

you should not have any distance issues as long as you match the reel to the guides to the blank to the lure. i would look at using a 16 or 20 for a butt guide. look at the M style guides. you will get the added height and keep it light. i recently built a similar rod(mb842 castaway) and used a 16 as the butt and went down to the 4 for the running guides. i used the minimas and the rod performs well. i hear that the minimas will be available in a size 3 soon and that will be very nice. you are building a light rod so it makes sense to keep it light and go with small guides to get the most out of the rod. you can definately go smaller than size 4 if you decide.

IMO, for the ultimate experience ... St Croix SC3 paired with a Shimano Stradic CI4 Microline. For cost savings ... MHX paired with a Shimano Sahara. Definitely, the 1000 reel - it will cast just fine, especially with a super line. BTW, the Sahara is lighter than the Stradic in the 1000 size. I also encourage putting your rod in a tube.

BTW, I would be highly amiss if I didn't point you in the direction of my absolute favorite trout/travel blanks ... St Croix 2S60LF4 and Batson SB720-4. Both are 6'0", 4-piece construction. Yes, I am aware they are shorter than your stated criteria. But they are VERY light, VERY strong and VERY packable. I have thousands of miles and hundreds of hours on mine and absolutely love them more than anything else in my collection. I have NEVER wanted for more distance when using them ... I am just way too happy with the portability, sensitivity and strength. Both will go into a 22" case which you can almost stick it into your pocket.

Not really in favor of a graphite rod without a storage case. Too many possibilities for damage.
IMO a 7' glass lite to med-lite with a very light guide train would be the choice for distance and durability.
The guide train could be #3 Recoil light wire single foot titanium fly guides for the top 2 guides. Recoil titanium spinning guides for the remainder, probably 4 guides. A hard chrome large loop fly top for the tip top.
The guides are very light to increase the rod reaction speed and are very durable.
Single foots throughout for maintenance, when necessary.
If your heart is set on graphite, consider the 2-piece 7'6" 4-weight IM6 Forecast blank from Batson.
Less than $30 from J Stockard

Eugene Moore



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2010 08:42PM by Eugene Moore.

Just get an appropriate sized PVC pipe and store the rod in that. It should tuck in your jeep just about anywhere and will totally protect the rod. I used the thin wall PVC so it's light and cheap.

I take my fly rods in my Land Cruiser all summer long, and with all the gear, and rough travel, there is no way they would survive without some decent protection.

Something like this [www.jannsnetcraft.com] would let you leave the rod rigged, just broken down into 2 parts.

Dave,
I have done a lot of fishing like you are proposing and your blank selection is about right.

With respect to a reel, I agree with you on the use of a larger spool to get more casting distance. Very simply put - a larger spool - will give you more casting distance.

However, rather than going to a heavier reel, go to the small pass pro reel that uses the super sized spool.

[www.basspro.com]

The ex-10 reel still only weighs 7.5 ozs, but it has a spool that is very close to a shimano 4000 reel. It is small and light with a very large diameter spool It casts very very well.
Bass pro, has three different versions of this reel. More bearings, etc. as you go up in price. All essentially the same reel, just more features as you go up in price. But the spools are the same size for the particular model for each of the grades.

With respect to a case, I just prefer to put the rod on the reel into a soft nylon bag. Basically, it keeps everything together and it keeps the rod from getting scratched. It won't prevent the rod being damaged, if you set something on the rod, but it still takes the brunt of the punishment. With respect to your jeep, you could also consider the use of an inside roof mount. By hanging the rod from the roof of the vehicle, it keeps the rod up and out of the way from being damaged.

Another thing that works well, when you are working rough country, is to simply use a large diameter pvc tube, that is strapped to the roof of the vehicle. Have the front of the pvc with a glued on permenant cap, and the back of the tube with a twist on cap, or a slide through bolt to lock the cap in place. If you get a pvc pipe of large enought diameter you can simply leave the rod assembled, leave the reel on the rod, and simply pop off the cap and slide the rod and reel into the pipe and cap it again. You would need about a 10 inch pipe to do that with the reel left on the rod.

For trout fishing, I find that the "sensitive feel" is less important than having the right tip - to give the fisherman a Visual indication of a strike by the use of a light tip on the rod.

My favorite trout rod is actually a St. Croix SCV in the 7'6" lenght in the medium light action. A wonderful rod for the type fishing that you are going to use it for.
Trout have a fragile mouth and it is pretty easy to have a trout rip a hook out of its mouth. That is why I prefer a lighter action, slower action rod, to allow more of the rod come into play when fishing for trout. This is much the same as when using the classic Steel head rod, with light line. i.e. a lighter slower action, to cushion the line against the surges that you find with steel head.

But even small trout can make some pretty agressive runs and can easily tear free on a rod that is too stiff and or too short, to disallow cushion for the fishs mouth and light line.

Roger

Dave,
use a gun case for your travel rod. BPS has them from around $15 and there is a massive choice. Its flat and that gets around all your objections for packing. Wallyworld carries them too.Your reel can go in it too and it goes in the trunk and you can pile stuff on top of it no problem.You can custom cut the foam inside to suit whatever you want to carry too.I build rods for my buddy's international fishing outfitter and his clients are flying USA to New Guinea, New Zealand, Oz etc and the gun case is honestly the way to go. Most airlines allow them as carry on and they go into overheads no problem too. Once the other side there may be days in a jeep or hiking in bush. For road trips, it can double as your tackle box. Unlike a tube getting rods out it also easy.

Thank you All for the great input. I appreciate it!

And... On the subject of using a rod case. Let me just say... Uncle! I'm hard headed and stubborn, but not THAT hard headed and stubborn <grin>. When this many knowledgeable folks are all trying to tell me something, I'll listen. So, the rod WILL travel in a case of some sort.

You guys really have me rethinking the reel selection too. My heart was leaning towards the 1000 all along. But I'd really like to get maximum distance, so had decided on a 2500. Consider that decision back in play. It's my nature to really sweat these kind of details. So, I'll start from scratch, look at the Bass Pro reels and other "big spool" options, the Ci4 microline, other 1000's etc. Still may end up with the 2500, just have an itch for max. distance that seems to need scratching, but, like I said, that decision is back up in the air.

Will also take the advice to go handle some St. Croix rods - I've never used one.

It also occurs to me, reading some of your thoughts on blank selection, that maybe I ought to think about building two rods <BIG Grin>.

Thanks again Guys, I reall do appreciate the advice.

- Dave

Definitely go to the Expo-you're decision will quickly go from "what blank" to "how many."

Just an update on the reel decision... I ended up with a 2500 after all, the Stradic CI4 2500.

Went to a local outfit where I could handle the St. Croix (and other) rods, as well as a good selection of reels. As already noted, I had a 2500 in mind for distance, and also hopefully fewer wind knots. But, I just like the size, weight and feel of a 1000 better for this application. But after putting several different reels on several different rods, it was the CI4 2500 that went home with me. I think the very lightweight CI4 2500 will be an excellent compromise. Actually weighs just a bit less than the Stradic FI 1000 I had been thinking of getting. A little bit bulkier, to be sure, but certainly not overly so and seems like a very nice reel all around. It cost more than I had planned on, but I think I'll have the advantages of the 2500 size wtihout the weight penalty.

Now, I need to make up my mind on the blank! Right now, I think it's between the MXH S842-2 or the 3S70MLF2. Seeing as how I just spent about $50 more on the reel than I had planned, I probably ought to take the MXH, since it's $50 less than the St. Croix. But, without the opportunity to have handled an MXH for comparison, I'm awfully tempted by that SCIII...

- Dave

I don't think the larger reel is going to help with distance. A smaller diameter, longer depth spool generally provides better distance.

The larger the line coils that come off the reel spool, the less distance you're going to get.

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