On 2mm micros, how many lock wraps should I go, 2 or 3? I do not want to get epoxy to close or in the guide. Thank You.

I do three with A thread

SK Custom Rods
American Tackle Pro Staff

Fish now, cause you'll be dead for a long time.

I do two, then two blocking wraps.

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

Same as Scott, 3.

DR

I do same as chuck

The pull out security of the Forhan wrap on micro guides is controlled by the design of the frame.

They are different - Amtak, Batson, Fuji, Kigan and Pac Bay

Factors: Tunnel, Riser Neck and Design, Length, Top Grooving, Foot Barb

One guide used by many is the Fuji LSG 3.5. The Fornan lock does not insure resistance to pull out.

For other micro guides the security improvement by use of Forhan is substantial.

The numer of locking wraps is determined by the height of the riser.

This is another of those micro guide questions that one answer may not be accurate for all guides.

Bill,

If you put the figure eight at the narrowest point of the guide foot (waistline), this provides a virtually "fail-safe" LOCK. On some guides, this is right in the middle of the guide foot (i.e- Minima #5F).

I start by wrapping 5-6 wraps of thread, THEN introduce the guide so that the END of the guide foot is on top of these first 5-6 wraps (where it will remain exposed).

Then wrap OVER the guide foot 4-5 wraps.

Then pull a section of fly-tying wire (same dia. as thread) under the guide foot (prying it up away from the blank) to the point where the forhan wrap will start. This wire will create room between guide foot and blank for an "earlier than usual" figure eight. Continue wrapping 'til you reach the wire, wrap one wrap past the wire, then figure eight within the framework of the narrow waistline of the guide foot.

Continue wrapping conventionally and add a couple of blocking wraps past where the leg turns up away from the blank. Remove wire.

This introduces a guide "in suspension" and also creates an actual tunnel (with two openings) for easier flooding of finish, rather than a "cave".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2010 08:04PM by Torin Koski.

Why would anyone go through all that trouble Torin? It must take you forever to wrap a rod. And I do not see any advantage to what you are doing.

Rolly Beenen
Rovic Custom Rods

Rolly,

As Bill Stated "The pull out security of the Forhan wrap on micro guides is controlled by the design of the frame." Where you put the locking wrap is what I've discovered is most important. Many of the guides we use have frames that gradually swell outward where the foot turns up towords the guide ring, so a locking wrap is almost useless there.

I've "gone through all that trouble" as you put it, testing over and over the best way that a single foot guide would not be so easily pulled out when a rod ends up in the hands of a particular friend and fishing partner of mine. Believe me, he is like the gorilla in the Samsonite commercials. Prior to securing guides in this manner, every rod he's had, has had guides pulled out - even double foot snakes!!!! And so began my extensive process of finding ways to keep his rods from EVER coming back to my workbench. Like everything else, it just takes a little practice to become more proficient - though I'm in no big hurry like so many others here (understandably).

You're not the first skeptic to question my methods, and undoubtedly won't be the last. Another added advantage to my method is the small added additional standoff that occurs, which reduces the likelihood for epoxy to "creep" into the guide ring - as Lorenzo was concerned with to begin with. I've tried the conventional Forhan method with identical guides, but my technique resulted in a somewhat more secure wrap. In fact, when using the same thread tension to secure the guides, my pull-out tests (without finish) resulted in less failure using my method vs. the standard Forhan Locking wrap method (my threads usually broke during failure with my method). My guides are floating, encapsulated in Lumiseal and LOCKED via figure 8 like the Forhan wrap, but AT the location of the guide foot's narrowest point. It's not for everyone, especially if you're trying to build at a high production rate, of which I'm not, so it suits me just fine. One drawback is it's noticeably more difficult to do a final "tweak" of the wrapped guide, so more care must be taken initially to ensure guide alignment.

The one guide that Bill stated where the Forhan wrap does not really work no matter where you put it is the Fuji guides. The Fuji guide foot is straight so there is nothing on the guide frame that will catch the threads to keep the guide in place. I do something similar to Torin if I am using Fuji guides, but only for guides that are on the bigger section of the blank. I have not had any isses so far with guides that are near the tip of the rod. I think the guides near the tip have not had problems because if you were to do a cross section near the tip you would see that the angle that the thread makes over the guide foot captures the guide more. But for guides on the bigger section of the blank, that angle is relatively flat over the guide foot. For these guides I start with a few wraps, then slip my guide under the next thread and make a few more wraps. I then wiggle the guide a bit to bring the tip of the guide foot under the threads. Then after a few more wraps, I put the figure 8 wrap on a couple of times. I continue wrapping as normal, then end with the Forhan wrap and a couple of security wraps. For me what I see this doing is keeping the guide from twisting under the thread because it is secured on both ends of the guide foot with a figure 8 wrap. I have seen less isses with these guides that are on the butt end of the blank. I have only done this on a couple of rods, but so far so good.

So far so good for me too, Mike. Good to hear someone else has discovered using this "different technique". And most importantly for me, I haven't had to do further repairs for my "Samsonite Gorilla" friend.