We recently approved 2 impressive builds to our Approved Rod Builder Program.

[northforkcomposites.com]

Peter, could you contact me please? You're email address is hidden.

Thanks!
Chuck

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"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

Congrats Chuck and Sebastian.

Question:
"Chuck’s guide alignment and eye for the spline got a ringing endorsement around the office."

Did you just happen to notice it was built on spine or can this be inferred as saying the NFC preference is being built on spine/spline?

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2010 09:06AM by Alex Dziengielewski.

Gary Loomis has always been a proponent of building on the straightest axis. If he's changed his mind I'm sure he'll chime in.

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This could prove to be a very interesting thread.

I am in daily contact with a blank and rod designer who worked with Gary Loomis many years ago. He was also associated with Lamiglas and Lew Childre. He is now associated wth a major supplier of production rods. His talents as a caster both fly rod, match rod and casting rods is well documented.

I routinely get a "lashing" when I suggest that rods be built on the straigthtest axis.

I am going to forward this thread to the gentleman with the hope that he responds to this Internet Fourm thread along with Gary Loomis.

This could turn out to be the first version of Friday Serious!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2010 01:56PM by Bill Stevens.

Oh, yes it could... I will be watching this thread over the next few days for sure.

By all means let us know when you find out how a rod can be cast and fished on a single axis.......... as most spine proponents would seem to suggest can be done!

There will be a lot of opinions. We know Jason Brunner at St. Croix instructs his builders to use the straightest axis (see the RodMaker article he did for us). Gary did as well mainly so that the weight of the guides would bring any natural curvature back to straight.

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I can't say I have really seen a set of guides make a rod straight... I've seen them give the illusion it was straight... which is far easier to do with larger ringed guides.

Maybe I'm not using guides large enough to do the job though.

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Alex Dziengielewski Wrote:
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> Congrats Chuck and Sebastian.
>
> Question:
> "Chuck’s guide alignment and eye for the spline
> got a ringing endorsement around the office."
>
> Did you just happen to notice it was built on
> spine or can this be inferred as saying the NFC
> preference is being built on spine/spline?

Thanks! I always build on the straightest axis. It makes it much easier to line up 3mm guides too! I always check and mark the spine out of habit, but the spine and the straightest axis are rarely the same, if ever.

What you probably won't read on the NFC blog is that Leanne and I drove to Portland to visit our son. We made an appointment with Jon Bial to drop off the rod and tour the shop. Jon was very gracious and gave us a very interesting tour - except for one room where the elves are rolling the sticks. We met Gary's son, Brad, while he was sanding blanks. Then we went up to Gary's office to meet him. Jon handed Gary my entry. I felt like a kid in school after handing my homework in - it seemed like hours until he spoke! Gary looked it over and simply said "nice stick'. We chatted for a while, and then somehow Leanne and Gary started talking about quilting. It seems that Gary's wife is a quilter. So, I'm standing in Gary Loomis' office and he's talking to my wife about quilting. I still get a kick out of that thought. (Bill - that's the Friday Funny)

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2010 02:55PM by Chuck Mills.

I have never seen any quanitative evidence that the spine had any effect on rod performance one way or the other. Without this type of evidence it seems to me that all we have are opinions. The opinions may come from well respected, authoritative sources or sources that are not as well respected but in either case without any evidence one way or the other we are just dealing with opinions.

Chuck I sure wish you had thought to mention detail work that rodbuilders do using quilting tools - you should have tried to sell Gary the mat and roller cutter!

[www.swamplandtackle.com]

My contact has been sent this link - he has promised to respond later. I sure hope he can remember his login and password.

Emory this could be the time and the place to place several issues squarely on the table. I sure would like to see the opinions of those on both side of the manufactuing business.

I have a couple of things that bother me.

Why do custom builders build on so many blank with bellys, i.e., is it possible to build straight "blank" quality blanks.

Why does that thing called the "spine" always seem to force the tip section 90 degrees to the left?

The ones with manufacturing experiences have not posted.. The fellow I refer too was involved in the Spolek treatsie and was the caster of the fly rod used in the presentation on resonate frequency. He is a golf club shaft desgner and can factually report to all of us the importance of the resonate frequency issues both in golf clubs and fishing rods.

I hope the people that have the real knowledge choose to a post.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2010 04:21PM by Bill Stevens.

Golf clubs are typically used on one plane only. Fishing rods are used on many. Any fishing rod that requires that casting, hook setting and fish fighting be done on the plane of the spine is going to be severely limited in use.


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I'm relatively new to the game but I 'll chime in anywho. I have never noticed any difference at all reguarding the spline other than a good selling point for custom builders...;). I would rather have a straighter looking blank/rod than a splining (and a crooked rod) in which I can not feel a difference one way or the other. On top of that most of the bends or turns I see in rod blanks seem to point in the direction of the spline anyway. Does the manufacturing process lend itself to bends toward the spline, or toward the seam ? Seems to me it does most times.

Keep in mind that the spine is not a physical thing - it's an effect and how much of the blank you flex determines where that effect is created.

There is no right nor wrong way to do any of this where spine or straightest axis is concerned. Generally, the straightest axis will be along the axis with the most power. Having this on top generally makes the rod a bit crisper to react and recover. By a little anyway.

A rod blank that must be fished along one certain axis for any reason whatsoever, is a very poorly designed instrument. We don't fish that way - at least I don't.

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Tom,
That is an excellent point. I cannot think of any type of fishing where the rod will always be deflected on the same axis or plane which means that there is no proper place for the spine to be located relative to the guides or relative to anything else. Any rod that is being cast will typically while being cast be deflected at or close to 90 degrees from the plane of the guides.
If you will look at slow motion photos of the golf swing you can see that the axis on which a golf club flexes will actually change by roughly 90 degrees during the swing. However, I will concede that golf club shaft manufacturers are more concerned with torque then we are and a little less concerned with weight which allows them to use manufacturing approaches that virtually eliminate the spine but that may not be appropriate for rod blanks, approaches like filament winding.

But, properly swung, a golf club shaft is in a single position upon impact with the ball. Not so with a fishing rod which is called upon to do so many things in so many directions.

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I am in complete agreement with you about a fishing rod but not about golf club shafts. The shaft of a golf club will not always flex on the same plane even at impact with the ball. Think about hooking the ball or fading the ball and how that affects the flexing of the shaft.
You have obviously not spent as many hours over as many years on golf coarses working on your game as I have. I actually thought about attempting to make a living at it at one point. I was not really that good but at the time I thought that I was.

Actually I have - notice what I said - "properly swung."

When you set up a golf club shaft, you would set it up assuming the club face is going to be square at impact.

You cannot set up a fishing rod that way, however, as there are too different directions and orientations where it will have to be used.

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It is nearly impossible to build a perfect shaft (without a "spine") AND it is equally impossible to align an imperfect shaft (with a "spine") when the orientation is constantly changing. IMO, it is just that simple.