Looking for some guide size/ style suggestions on a 7wt. 9' fly rod. This will be used for Largemouth and occasional inshore saltwater outing. The customer is pretty set on using snakes guides. I know some are using the Minima guides with great results. I would love to go that way on this build but the owner does not want it to "look like a spinning rod." Let's say you get into the backing and the backing is braid. Would a wire fly guide survive?

Eric



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2010 07:56PM by Eric Brown.

I've had no problems with snake of singlefoot wire guides and braid backing. Line doesn't hurt guides, it's the crud it picks up and uses as an abrasive that damages the guides.

Yes they will survive, for some amount of time. It all depends on how much use the rod sees. I've seen snake guides last for years and I've seen them done in within a season or two.

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sell him on using the single foot guides. i would highly recommend the minima guides, but even using single foot wires adds less to the rod than double foots. you are the builder and he is coming to you for your expertise. i know some fishermen think they know about rods, when they don't. i have found it best to explain why i use a certain guide or style of build. once they understand it makes a more efficient rod they usually agree and go with my recommendation.

Thanks guys, this info helps tremedously. I've been using braid for years. I have just never used it as backing on fly reels. The kicker here is that this will be used in the salt and that backing will see plenty of light. I have done research on guide sizes but does anyone have suggestions for single foot mm sizes for a 7wt. He will be using around a 15lb flurocarbon leader w/ loop connection.

you should easily be able to use size 5 in the minima guides with a 7wt. it all depends on your knot system, but i regularly use them on my 8wts. the minima 5 has an opening similar to a 6

Fly anglers have been using braid backing (dacron & micron) with success for decades. I would be interested to see the total weight savings of a minima guide set versus a snake guide set. I wonder if a blindfolded caster could feel the difference, even after a day's casting.

Single foot and minima guides do not increase casting distance with a fly rod - no advantage here. This past May I saw a bonefish run rip two single-foot guides off the nine 9wt. of my fishing partner before his leader parted. We do frequently get twists and loops in our fly lines, and Murphy's Law predicts when this will happen. The geometry of a snake guide permits a larger opening than a single-foot of the same diameter. The larger the guide opening the better the chance that a nail knot or a twist or a small loop in your line will clear your rod.

It's all a trade off - the cachet and weight savings of minimas versus the strength and fish-fighting advantages of snakes.
BTW: I recently saw an 8wt. fly rod with 5mm single foots and an oversized tip-top?!

For me, the weight difference is enough to easily notice the increased response and quicker recovery when using Minimas. With a Forhan locking wrap, you couldn't possibly tear one off the rod (you might break the rod or the leader trying to do so, however).

As always there is a point of diminishing returns. It all depends on how heavy a set of snake guides you're starting with.


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It's not just the weight of a set of double foot snake guides vs. the weight of a set of Minimas. You have to account for that additional weight of thread and thread finish as well. Though it may not be very much actual weight, where the weight is at is what accounts for the difference.

I've had two rods given to me for repair where the butt-end foot of a snake guide was ripped out from under the wraps (before leader breakage) due to this very "hang up" situation. These guides might have still remained on the blank since the top foot remained secured, but they still had to be replaced anyway.

If the single foot guides of today were available back when flyrods were first used, would you have ever even heard of snake guides? I think they'd be the guides "laughed right off of the rod", if introduced in later years. The only benefit I can see is that snakes accumulate less icing when fishing in cold weather, but even this is heavily debated.

I use single foot guides on all my fly rods (except traditional bamboo) and have never had one fail in any way

. Oh, and I fish with these for: Tarpon, Dorado, Trevaly, Bonefish and Steelhead, pretty good testing!

I still doubt the "one leg is better than two" theory, even if shedding one leg reduces weight a bit.

Phil

Do a search on them And try a set on your next rod and see how the rod performs much better then with two legs.

Bill - willierods.com