I have noticed that most of the builders and all mass produced fly rods step up to wire snake guides from single foot wire for heavy fresh water and salt. My experence so far tells me that an incredible amount of preasure may be applied to single foot guides before they want to pull out of the finish or even bend (even without locking wraps). Does anybody have any factual evidence that single foot guides should not be used for lets say heavy salmon or tarpon rods? I think singles with inserts make a fly rod feel a little front heavy, and I want to go with simple heavy wire single foots, but have been apprehensive only because I never see it.

They're fine. Use them with confidence. If you want to prove it to yourself, wrap one on a blank and try to pull it off or destroy. You'll break the blank before either will happen.

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Just for fun & "the devil made me do it" ...

equal size inner rings (6mm):
wt in grams of minima 4 guide : 0.27
wt in grams of light single foot fly guide : 0.17
wt in grams of bronzed single foot fly guide : 0.26



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2010 05:32PM by Ken Preston.

I'm fairly new to flyfishing, only took it up recently, so that I would be able to talk intelligently about it with customers. But, I think the use of snake guides is more of a "tradition" thing than anything else. To me, it looks like the double wraps just add weight, and the shape doesn't hold the line in place as well as a single foot wire guide. Since I always choose function over form, all of my flyrods have single footed guides.

here is another single foot wire guide that puts the line just a little off the blank English made : Seymo guides in the middle of the page : []

Bill - willierods.com

Larry,
Single foot guides should be fine in the tip area of the rod. Maybe the top 2-3.
They are much more abusive to the fly line than a double foot when fighting fish.
With the potential for heavy tippets and large fish I'd recommend the double foot after moving away from the tip.

Eugene Moore

you could use all single foots and be fine. most use the first two guides as double foot as it is more traditional, but by no means is it necessary to use double foots. i usually use double foots for the first two and line tamer if i use one. the rest are all singles. this is custom so do what you want and if it turns out you don't like it then you have the ability to change it.

Eugene Moore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Larry,
> Single foot guides should be fine in the tip area
> of the rod. Maybe the top 2-3.
> They are much more abusive to the fly line than a
> double foot when fighting fish.
> With the potential for heavy tippets and large
> fish I'd recommend the double foot after moving
> away from the tip.
>
> Eugene Moore


Exactly HOW are single foot guides ANY more abusive to the fly line than double foot guides? The guide comes into contact with the fly line in the same fashion - at one point and one point only - whether it's a single foot or double foot guide, metal or ceramic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2010 01:34AM by Torin Koski.

Single foot guides sit perpendicular to the line creating a smaller contact patch with higher stress on the line when fighting a fish.
Double foot guides contact the line on a bias creating a larger contact patch which reduces contact stress.
The same principle as approaching a speed bump at an angle. Adding contact patch length adds time to the contact reducing stress.
In addition the perpendicular nature of the guides promote a washboard effect and more vibration.
The noise generated is a function of this vibration.
If single foot guides are a vast improvement wouldn't the large manufacturers have jumped at the opportunity to reduce labor costs while producing an improved product.
I believe the singles are adequate if the contact stress is low ( ie rod tip area, light tippets )
Even at that fly line life is diminished based on the loads applied.
If replacing fly lines at shorter intervals is acceptable use them. If higher casting performance is the priority, they certainly reduce inertia and the use of light wire titanium pushes that higher.

Eugene Moore

Eugene

Single foot guides sit perpendicular to the line creating a smaller contact patch with higher stress on the line when fighting a fish.

So you don't use any single foot guides ??

Bill - willierods.com

The double foot guides have a "slight" larger contact path. However, an increased contact patch equals a larger coefficient of friction, resulting in a shortend fly line life.

Bill,
Of course I use them when conditions warrant.
Light lines, light fish, casting delicacy, light rods, casting ease are all good reasons.
Even at that I prefer the use of snakes in the center and butt of the rod where line loads are higher.
I've been doing "hybrid" guide trains for several years.
I used to get 3-5 years out of a good fly line with snakes.
With single foots that has dropped to using cheap lines and replacing them yearly. Even a good line is trash after 1-1/2 to 2 years.
That's the price I'm willing to pay for some types of fishing.
If I'm pursuing "big game" on heavy rods the rules are not the same.
The situation dictates the build not the builder dictating the situation.

Eugene Moore

What about Single Foot Micros A lot of people are using them on heavy rods Many posts here saying that

Snakes are open to the blank and as my common sense tells me that on the back and probably the forward cast, the line will slide along the blank - causing friction and therefore slowing the line On a fast heavy fly rod I think it is even better to use say a ti ceramic guide. If the rod will handle it.

Bill - willierods.com

I build only fly rods and use double foot snake guides only when the customer insists or I am building a "traditional" Bamboo rod! I fish for Tarpon, Dorado, Salmon and Steelhead along with the other varieties of fish. The single foot guides (with and without ring inserts) are no harder on my lines than snake guides! On big fish, most often the majority of the battle is done with the backing in the guides, not the line.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2010 04:03PM by Phil Erickson.

I still don't see how double foot guides vs. single foot guides have any difference in wear rate on a flyline when the guide materials are identical. Under a HEAVY load, double foot snake guides have contact with the line at the point furthest away from the blank, which IS perpendicular to the lines "outbound" path.

It's also been my understanding that many manufacturers were using single foot snakes for a while, but the end users were finding ways of pulling them out at a greater rate than the manufacturers cared to cover under warranty claims. This obviously increased labor costs.

The difference between the guide types and surface angle will not amount to any practical difference within the realm of what we're doing here. Far too miniscule to have any measurable effect.

...............

The rod companies did use them for a while and most have gone back to snake eyes. However the reasons were because most people are so tradition bound they didn't buy them. Then they also put them on without using a locking wrap and had to replace a lot of them, this gave them a bum rap. I pesonally use them on every thing except bamboo and that is only for traditions sake.

Well said Tom, I agree. VERY miniscule difference....

Thanks for the replies guys....

I have been fighting 30-40lb salmon for 5 years on my 8wt with single foot alconites.