Common Cents System: How many rod builders are actively using this system?
Is it gaining traction among professional rod builders?
Are you incorporating the CCS into your sales to the public?

Or, have you tried using CCS and gave up, why?

Is this idea dying on the vine?

I realize it’s up to the rod builder to educate…I want to hear how it’s being received.

I see North Fork Composites, (Gary), is incorporating this into his business and this is where it may have to start to really gain traction. Is there any other blank manufactures using the CCS in a serious way?

Thank you for your time,

~Mark

"Is there any other blank manufactures using the CCS in a serious way?"

I see that Dan Craft has a few models that they have included CCS data for on their website. I think it's the best tool, make that the only tool for us to use when comparing apples to apples, rather than sifting through the "apple sauce" recipes that the blank/rod makers have historically spooned us in the past.

I would say that at least several thousand rod builders are using it. Keep in mind that the internet crowd only accounts for maybe 5% or so of the mainstream craft. I tend to judge it by the number of letters and emails from RodMaker subscribers (15,000+) that inquire or comment on it. Generally in the publishing industry, you count each written comment to represent 8 or 9 additional people.

North Fork is using it. St. Croix is seriously looking at it. Tim Rajeff had adopted a version of it (under his own moniker). At least one is getting ready to unveil it in their upcoming catalog but I'm not at liberty to discuss that. At this point some companies see it as something that could catapult sales for them.

The Fahrenheit scale required decades before it was even remotely accepted.

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I will bet money, that weather they say it or not, in the near future there will be a trend in the mass production market where rods (fly rods at least) will be falling closer and closer into the perameters of what a particular rod weight is or should be as defined by CCS. Just my opinion though. We'll see.

I use it on every fly rod I build and always cover the subject in my presentation to customers.

That will help the economy. Hire people to CC all there blanks so when ya order a blank ya know it is a say 3 wt and not a 5 wt or it will handle that 1 oz weight it is labeled for.

Bill - willierods.com

Most all rods and blanks will handle the weights and lines they are labeled for. What you cannot do, is make direct comparisons between them until and unless they are all measured with the same system or relative measurement.

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Yes -- but not all handle it well There is a difference heck I can throw a 3 wt line on a 7 wt blank But it would not be much fun

Bill - willierods.com

I appreciate all the input.
I will begin using the CC system.

Thank you for your time,

~Mark

CCS is a wonderful system for objectively defining a blank or rod’s characteristics. In the near future we will be introducing a new series of fast action rod blanks beginning with fly. There will be CCS data published for all of these blanks and we will be using CCS to develop and define all future blanks in our offering.

One does need to remember that the AFTMA fly line ratings are defined by the first 30 feet of line so a blank defined as a 5 weight with an ERN of 5.75 may not necessarily be pleasant to cast when trying to launch 70 feet of 5 weight line. This is the beauty of CCS, it forces, or hopefully will force people to start thinking in terms of measured casting weight and what they expect the rod to do for them. Who knows, maybe some day soon you will see ERN, action angle, and frequency on rod decals rather than line ratings or arbitrary lure weights. Then you can decide if the rod is suitable for YOUR intended use and casting style.

-The Batson TEAM
BatsonEnterprises.com

That is great

But is the system not rated as for 30 feet of line past the tip ??

Bill - willierods.com

Hi Bill,
Can you elaborate? I'm not understanding the question and/or point.

-The Batson TEAM
BatsonEnterprises.com

I thought the system was when the line is figured out as to what the blank will handle , it was according to 30 foot of line off the tip or casted. This way one can have an idea of using more how it may act

Some blanks are rated as a 5 wt say- but they figure 50 foot of line off the tip or being casted

Bill - willierods.com

OK I see what you are saying now. That is what the system does by assigning ERN numbers to an AFTMA weight range. However, I would not suggest that anyone use any single measurement as an absoulute means of determining what rod is right for them. Furthermore, I don't think that a manufacturer (especially the really good ones lets say the ones beginning with S for example) have an obligation to identify their rods with a line weight rating that matches the ERN range. If they design a rod with an ERN of 6.9 and an AA of 75 and they call it a 5 weight I will take their advice and attempt to throw 100' lazers with a 5 weight line. Its what the tool is meant to do and wouldn't try to change it by using a heavier line. I would just use a rod with a lower ERN, AA, and frequency for smaller creeks etc...

-The Batson TEAM
BatsonEnterprises.com

I would dare say that an ERN of 6.9 would probably be better with a 6 - maybe 7 line

Then again I had a ( S ) rod a 5 wt 2 pc 9 ft Fast SCIV that I did not like with a 5. Casted well but I liked it better with a 6 wt line. Loaded better and I could feel the line on the rod.

Bill - willierods.com

The CCS data would indicate that a 6 or 7 would load the rod better at normal casting ranges. I did see some kids at the Denver show last week that probably would prefer a 3 or 4 line judging by the ferocity of their double hauls. I just think that taking a $700 fast 5 weight (according to the manufacturer) and loading it with a heavier line is like putting a cart on a thoroughbred. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing rod makers list a "suggested" line rating in addition to the CCS data. That way you could tell what the rod designer's intensions were for that particular model.

-The Batson TEAM
BatsonEnterprises.com

yes but if I like the feel and how it casts I will use a higher line It is all what works better to the person using it.

Bill - willierods.com

Agreed.

-The Batson TEAM
BatsonEnterprises.com

It's really not the line that matters, it is the PPF (Personal Preferred Frequency) of the caster. The length and weight of line outside the tip simply is the tool one uses to adjust a rod to the angler's PPF.

Thanks for weighing in Bill. I agree with your statement above. Are you doing another seminar at the CRBE next year?

-The Batson TEAM
BatsonEnterprises.com