am planning on a swimbait rod with micro guides and the rod will be spiral wrapped . i am gonna use 25 lb. copolymer line , no braid , and some times 30 lb. copolymer line . i will not have any connections knots , what guide size would be good , would a size 4mm micro do good with this line ???

I use 3mm guides, spiral wrapped, with floro lines up to 25 lb extensively. But when going above 25lb I always switch to braids (personal choice).
So I know you will not have a problem up to that point and most likely not with the 30lb, but if you are concerned you may want to go with 3.5mm.
I would also suggest starting with a 6-mm, 5-mm, 4-mm then which ever you choose for the runners and definitely going with a 6-mm tip.

Steve

why the 6 if runners are say 3.5

Bill - willierods.com

Please specify manufacture name when describing micro guide sizing - there are differences.

For copoly to 25# I use guides with a ring ID equivalent to Fuji Alconite 4.0 for runners on spirals or all on top.

Agree with the six tip comment from Steve due to the memory of the copoly.

Bill;

[rodbuilding.org]

Steve,

If you get a moment please check your email.

Tom

Thanks Steve

Bill - willierods.com

Here is a model of what a ring with a 2mm ID looks like with 50lb mono inside.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

As you can see there is still plenty of room.

Mike - can I use that model if I give you credit?

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

Email me and I can send you a higher resolution updated version that has a complete guide with frame. I can also make the line any diameter, depending on what you want to show.

Chuck take Mike up on the offer!

You will not believe how many fishermen see that photo and finally understand - demo a rod and it will be a done deal.

Here is a copy of the text I use with Mike's drawing in a brochure. The first time a bass fisherman sees a micro rod such as a 7' baitcaster rigged with Revo Premier, 50 # Powerpro and 3/8 lure the following usually occurs.

Do you think this rod will work"

Absolutely not says he!

Why not?

Bass fishermen will say "That 50# braind will not go through those tiny little guides!"

Ask them to point their finger at the first line guide on the rod.

Every last one will point at the butt guide.

Then ask them the following question.

Can you give me one valid reason why any guide on the rod needs to be any larger thant the pawl guide on the reel.

Now they are thinking - that is what you want -

Next you say - Chunk it!

I can not post what two words come out of their mouth next!

The two first letters are H and S!

Hand them a brochure and take their order.

Brochure text to match Mike's drawing follows.

Here are the facts!

Fig. 2 illustrates the comparative sizing of fishing line inside a small micro guide ring

A test cast by a bass or inshore angler results in total astonishment. The wide-eyed disbelief is quite evident and predictable.

Why do micro guides work?

Take a close look at the size of the little ring used on the pawl guide of many high end bait-casting reels. Is there any logical reason that any guide on a bait casting rod needs to be larger than the pawl guide on the reel? If the internal ring of the micro guide is properly sized to permit passage of needed knots the answer is NO!

Line guides on many conventional inshore and fresh water casting rods are simply too large!

Not to stir the pot, but what about that pawl reel ring going from side to side. making a good angle from the line to the top. Would it not be at lest a good idea to have just that butt guide a bit larger ? Even just to make the line have a straighter path. just to help with casting line path.

Bill - willierods.com

Just to ask, would like 15lb test co-polymer be a good shoice for like a 2.mm micro guide, or would the line be to large?

Bill;
While I use a slightly larger sized guide for my stripper then some of the guys choosing 5 or 6mm sizes
The reason is not due to side to side movement, but rather height.

If you take and cast a weight and watch line move back and forth at the stripper guide and note the angle of line at the stripper guide as the weight is cast.
Then do the same again looking at the angle of the line between the paw guide and reel spool (especially when line is at one end of spool while paw is at other). You will realize the angle of line at the stripper is infinitesimal when compared to the angles coming of the spool against the reels paw guide.

Watching this should eliminate you concern

Lorenzo;
I would suggest go to 2,5mm on that type of line once you get above 12lb

Mr. Stevens, I'm all in on this deal. I just didn't want to copy your stuff without permission. Thanks for the inspiration!

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

Bill B.

Take any bait casting rod you have - in fact take the best one

Go outside -

Get somebody else to throw it for you -

Stand to the side and watch the line between the reel and the first guide -

What do you see while the lure is outbound -

Now you know why hook keepers can never be put in the correct place.

Now get someone to test cast a micro rod while you observe the line on the cast -

See anything different?

Couldn't give me a simple answer could ya ? Don't have any think to cast here right now.

Bill - willierods.com

Bill B it appears that no one can give you an acceptable answer -



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2010 10:31PM by Bill Stevens.

thanks :(



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2010 07:46PM by peter gersumky.