Would 3.5mm or 3.0mm be too small for a spiral wrap on a heavy action flipping rod of 7'10"?

That depends entirely on the line and any connections you plan to use.

............

My line would be mostly braid, of 30 to 50 lb. test. I was wondering if the line would rub the rod?

Try a tape up of the prospective guides and try running your anticipated lines, swivels and snaps through the guides.
If everything that you want to use runs through the guides and you an cast like you like - it is up to you if you want to use them or not.

Remember, one of the things about fishing is that it is supposed to be fun.

If you end up having trouble, or taking more time with your equipment because it is set up with guides that aren't convenient and useful for you on a days fishing - think about using a different guide.

Bottom line -

The rod in use with the expected reel , line and terminal tells the story as to whether the guides are the right size.

If in doubt, do a test tape up, or tie up, without putting on finish - fish it for a bit and let your experiences tell you if it is the right setup for you and your style fishing.

Roger

Bottom line is....for your intended use with braid to flip heavy jigs into heavy cover, go for it. Use the 3.5 guides and don't look back.

Flippin' rods - No leaders, No swivels, No spliced lines.........Lures tied directly to line.

Lance



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2010 10:45PM by Swampland Tackle Lance Dupre.

Specific answer:

Bottom Line Answer To Your Question:

Yes the 3.0 and 3.5 micro guides are used very effectively on heavy punch rods and flip sticks.

I built 27 Punch Rods, Flip Sticks and 845 Heavy Carolina rods for bass fishermen, including Elites, in the past two months.

Some all on top micro and some spiral.

I wish someone would describe the terminal tackle used on bass rod flipping sticks referred to in some of the responses. Rodbuilders who build bass rods and fishermen who use them have no reservations concerning the use of micro guides..

Roger what guides do you recommend on a flipping stick?

Maybe some of the builders who actually build flip sticks with micro guides will respond as well. OK guys chime in - I know you are watching!

Lorenzo if you want to do some homework on the line touch issue take a look at one of the threads on this subject on this very forum. If you need some assistance with set up contact me via email by clicking on my name at the top of this post.

Click on:

[rodbuilding.org]

While you are at it do a search on this forum for "M$M Volume" and select "all dates".

Bill



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2010 09:13PM by Bill Stevens.

Lorenzo I don't believe either of the guide sizes you have mentioned will be too small for a heavy action flippin rod I have had really good success with both sizes Fuji and Batson on flippin rods with line as large as 20lb mono. I wouldn't hesitate a bit on using them conventional or spiral. Build yourself one and fish it, you will be surprised.

I get mixed reviews around here using 3's on heavy flipping rods with braid or Mono. I use 3's on my flip stik with 17lb mono...works great for me. The guys that flip with braid like it even more. I only have a few guys that have tried micros and dont like them. I have spent ALOT of time looking at their setups to figure out why. The only thing I can come up with is that they run their reels completely wide open....when I switched them to 5's they raved about it. I tried their rods both ways and didnt notice a difference....but they did. I still wouldnt hesitate to put 3's on a flipping stick, but it also doesnt bother me to run 5's.

As a side note I've had a set of size 4 minimas on a frog rod with 50lb braid, and a flipping rod with 50lb braid as well. They have been used all season with excellent results. No wear on the guides, the rods are nearly identical in weight and balance to my personal rods with size 3 batsons, and they have held up to the rod locker of Ranger boats ( the guys testing them have Rangers also.,....we eat guides regularly). They have flanged batson tips however, I didnt have any minima tips on hand at the time. That will be the next test.

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com

I too have many flipping rods out there with size 3 and size 4 micros on them . Both in an all on top and in a spiral set up with no complaints. I did covert one rod to size 5's as the owner did not like the sound of braid on the guides?????

I would go to micros on any of the bass rods out there.

Rolly Beenen
Rovic Custom Rods

Lorenzo;
You can count me in with the yes group! either size will work great with out problems.
My personal choice is to use 3mm guides and have used them with braided lines up to 50 lb. for almost 3 years now
For structural integrity I would suggest staying with a 6mm tip.

If you are planning on this rod being used at times for pitching, then I would suggest going with the 3mm guides. I’ve done testing using both setups and the 3mm will perform better then the 3.5’s
[www.rodbuilding.org]

[www.rodbuilding.org]

You can also count me in the group that has never heard of anyone that uses flipping rods, using snaps or swivels with them.

I think that you will have ZERO problems with those guide choices. I am currently playing with a punching rod and a frog rod with 2.5's and 2.0's respectively... I have not been able to get out and do any test casting as of yet but plan on doing so soon. I can tell you that just doing some pitching in the rod room with 50lb braid, all seems to be well. If it doesn't work the way I want it I will have NO hesitation in gonig with 3.0's on both of these. I am hoping to get it out tonight after work and put it through its paces.

Tom

Thanks guys!

About the flipping and Scott Sheets comment - reels wide open - understood and agreed with certain lines.

Now the funny part -

The original question on this thread concerned a "flippin stick".

This rod is typically used as a fish recovery device -

Why would anyone be concerned with casting distance when the flipping technique involves a "flipping distance" of under 22 - 24 feet.

Rodbuilders need to fully understand all the terms if they want to participate in the bass rods selling markets.

Scott is talking about other things - pitching or long throw

Each is quite specific in its requirements.

Not one of them involves a snap or a swivel!

The needed information on micro rods is on this site - use it and build a rod.

Bill,

Are your guys using the punch rods more in the fashion of flippin or pitchin?? My guys are mostly picthin, with a little flippin... Personally, I flip more than pitch.

Everybody who actually builds rods like this have given you some good advice, you will be very happy using guides this size on a rod for this application, I can only add a couple of things.

First don’t get caught up in the fad to use an excessive number of guides, whether to keep the line off the blank, or the dubious marketing claim of increased sensitivity. For a flipping rod it doesn’t really matter if the line touches the blank, we are talking about a technique with less than 20ft of line out and a locked down drag, it is not like you have fish making 200yd runs with the rod heavily loaded. The excessive guides equals more sensitivity is pure marketing hype. On a 7.5-8 foot rod I would probably use 9-10 guides plus tip, but this is the same number I would use if I was using #6 guides.

The second item is about tips. So far I have been satisfied with the BMCAT tips, but some people recommend sticking with a size 6 tip for extra durability in such a punishing environment and I can’t disagree with them, the larger tips are capable of taking more abuse. Another possible alternative is the new American Tackle ring lock micro tip. [www.mudhole.com] You can see that it has much more substantial bracing than the BMCAT tip that we have been using, and it looks like a really good deep press for the ring. I have some of these coming and plan on using them this week.

Mike it will be interesting to see how these hold up.
Fuji has a similar design and if I remember correctly it is not the size of the bracing, but the outwards oval bend similar to what you have pictured that was causing the problem with them folding under when used on a spiral setup using heavy lines

As much as strength the larger tip also eliminates a challenge that arises when using heavy floro/ mono lines, when using micro tips in a flipping/ pitching situation.
See link in thread above

Thomas K:

A flipping stik is for close up hand to hand combat-

The best way to describe the difference in flipping and pitching is kind of simple - flipping does not load the blank on lure presentation.

When flipping the reel spool does not rotate for the lure presentation - the line is stripped in hand - purpose low, accurate, soft lure entry and vertical fall. Bite detection is normally visual or other sensory skills other than feel or "sensitivity" of blank. The real sensitive one is the fisherman with eyes closes trying to feel a lite bite who hears from the other end of the boat "Hey buddy you just missed another one"!

Pitching differs due to the fact that the reel spool rotates and the distances can be up to 50 - 60 feet. Micro gudes work of all tachniques when the rod is properly built.

Bill,

I completely understand on the Flippin technique as compared to Pitchin... COMPLETELY, different techniques, was just curious as to what your guys are doin.

steve - maybe we need to ask the manufacturers if the tops are designed and rated the same for "on top" or "on the bottom" positioning?

Maybe some of these tops are designed for on top casting rods (although any used on a spinning rod should encounter the same issues). It's not hard to see the stresses could be very different on the same piece if that piece was used differently than intended.

An arch is very strong... but only from one side.

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I will probably be doin mostly the pitching technique, on the spiral, would it be better for me to to start the butt guide and the other guides with larger micros, until I get to the 180degree guide, or should I just go all 3.0, or 3.5 mm? Oh! and thank you for the feed back, it was great, I learn alot off of this forum!

Personally, any time I am building a rod that may be used for flipping even on a rod that may be designated as mostly a pitching stick. I will start with a lager stripper guide then what I do on any other bait casters.
The reason is to provide finger clearance between the lines and blank so that when in the midst of flipping, I’m not bothered by or concerned about pinching the blank when I reach to grab the line losing focus or concentration. For me 8mm work great. But when building for someone with larger hands or fat fingers, I will use a 10 to 12mm guides

In your case you might want to tape up different sizes and do some flipping around you shop to which fits you needs best.