Anybody know what's causing this? I experienced it years ago in cold weather whenever I used Flex Coat. I switched to LS and it never did it in hot or cold weather. But, found LS had other problems or perhaps my technique wasn't what LS wanted. Switched to ThreadMaster. Now, the TM is doing this in hot weather. 94 degrees out when I did this and yes the humidity was high. Think the moisture is getting trapped in the finish cause the heat's making it set so fast? The finish left in the cup set up with milky striations in it. I checked, double-checked, and then checked again on my mixture and made sure i followed it through the cloudy to clear stage while mixing and then a little more mixing for good measure. Looked good goin on. This started happening about 30 minutes in. No CP was used.



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Humidity won't have any effect on your epoxy unless the dew point is such that you have actual condensation present.

Use a pin to open one of the "bubbles" and see what's in there - water or air.


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Looks more like contamination, if you look closely you can almost see "swipe" marks in photos 2 and 3, did you use any cleaners maybe between applications?

Greg what kind of thread and blank coating is involved.

s there a can of WD-40 in the immediate area?

Is there a can of Braid Aid or the Kevin Van Dam line conditioner in the immediate area.

Do you use any spay lubricant in the area.

What kind of cup do you do the mixing in? Silicone free?

Did you use any cleaning solvent on the thread prior to finish application?

Have you cleaned the "brush" or finish applicator with any solvent?

There is a reason for this - not the finish.

Bummer Huh!

The swipes are from my wiping with shammy after the cure to make sure it was dry. This is the first application. Gudebrod nylon size A thread. No Braid Aid, don't buy WD-40, blank is fiberglas and this is a repair job so the old finish was scraped off cleaned with ISO and allowed to set for a coupla days. Mixing cups from Acid Rod, only thread prep was gentle draggin of a tack cloth over the threads to remove dust. Brush was dry but used and only cleaned with denat. Mixed with ss spatula. Remember, I have something going on in the cup also. The only elements there are the cup, the spatula, and the syringes all of which I'm careful to store in sealed containers.
Tom, upon further investigation, they are not bubbles, they are tiny craters. Wiping cork dust on it makes it more pronounced and visible as the dust fills the tiny holes.

Okay, it's probably not water. It may be left over from any scents added to the alcohol (never use a solvent wipe as the last step in any surface preparation). They may be burst air bubbles.

This is a bit hard to pin down from photos.

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I tend to agree with Tom.
If the problem was moisture, I would normally see a more uniform milky appearance, indicating trapped moisture.

Your pictures look more like a bubble issue.

Did you have any bubbles in the mix when you applied it? If so, did you use a bit of gentle heat to allow the mix to thin and for the bubbles to escape?

If not, I think it is likely bubbles.

p.s.
NEVER, NEVER, NEVER touch a wrap to determine if it has cured.

If you touch a wrap and it has cured, - fine- but if not, you have made a mark on the wrap that is there to stay.

When applying finish from a cup or mix, leave the mix nearby, and if you need to test for cured finish, check the finish in the cup or on the surface of a bit of finish left on the board beneath the wrap.

Don't test for finish cure on the wrap or the rod itself.


Take care
Roger

p.p.s.
If you do use multiple coats of finish. Generally don't do anything except apply the next coat. Normally the best time to recoat is when the first coat has cured, say 6-8 hours or so, but is not yet rock hard.

I always test for cure in the cup. I wiped the wrap with the sham as I thought I saw a "sweat" or beads of something wetting it. It is not bubbles. It could be bursted bubbles but it definitely is not sealed bubbles. These are tiny craters in the finish. There is a slight milky appearance that doesn't come through well in the lighting. I always pour my finish out on a flat of tin foil to let the mixture bubbles escape. I never use heat or blow on the wraps. Again, I've the same thing left in the bottom of the sterile mixing cup. So, it can't be a contaminated blank, thread, alcohol, wiping, etc.

Thanks to all for the opines. I'll do some more testing and investigating.

Many years ago when I first started this hobby - around 1997 - give or take, I spoke with a developer of epoxy finishes who will go unnamed here. He informed me that some of the modern and more "popular" finishes used an inferior amine that was susceptible to causing a blush similar to what I'm experiencing in the milky finish here. TM, I've been told by one of the suppliers on the left, has properties similar to the one that I had trouble with before. I must fess up that these bottles of TM have been sitting out in my shed for 6 months now going through the extremely hot days, around 94, and then cooling down a little at night. Not a good way to treat your epoxy, I guess, but I thought that TM would prove a workhouse and solid product independant of abusive temps. Perhaps I was wrong.

For those chemically educated, is it possible that extreme temps - hot or cold - could have an adverse effect on the amine in the finish and make it more susceptible to blushing and cratering like this?

I hope I'm using the term "blush" correctly. I still have the rod that blushed on me in '97 and the blush gets worse with the passing of every year. Can't even read the insciption beneath it now as it's so milky.

I had the exact same issue a couple of months ago right after all the discussion about humidity affects on finish. I applied my second coat of Threadmaster to the rod with my garage open and it was raining outside. The temperature was stable inside and outside of the garage to make sure nothing condensed on the surface. After I finished applying I closed up the garage and the finish looked good. Left it on the turner and the next morning it looked just like what you have even with the little "track marks" like a one legged bug hopped all over it.

Hmmm,
Now that you mention it, I also applied with the door open and rain outside. But, since I had turn, I stayed with it for 30 minutes and saw the milkiness start to happen. Figured what the heck, and closed up and set the rod spinning. Came back and saw the tracks. Pretty sure it ain't a one-legged bug though as he did the same on most all of the wraps. Could've been a family of em I suppose.

I have seen that look before. It happened to one of my students when he was applying the first coat in a heavy manner. It happened to him quite a few times until I finally nailed it down. Once we changed his approach, no more problems.

I don't know where you are at ... but here in Florida, adhesives tend to work differently. I find the best approach to be a very light coat to "seal" the threads ... that also allows all air to escape. After allowing the first coat to set, I apply subsequent coats to achieve the desired build.

Give that a try and see if your gremlins are dispatched.

With a temperature that warm, the finish sets quickly. About twice the normal rate. So there is less time for bubbles to escape and those that do may not leave time for the epoxy to flow in to fill any craters left behind by escaping bubbles.

I'd suggest moving to a cooler temp, regardless of humidity and seeing what the outcome is.

Amine blush is caused by a combination of CO2 and humidity, in a fairly specific proportion. However, it can generally be wiped away or removed by setting the rod in a warm place for a few days.

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I had a similar experience and after a process of ilimination discovered it was a contaminated tack rag, smell your tack rag and if it smells a little gamey that could be the problem. It dosent take much pressure at all to transfer something from your tack rag to the rod, especially if the rag is contaminated.

Another thing to try is use the light and not the high build This will help the finish penetrate the thread and replace the air - if that is what it is.

I never use a tack rag, just place a folded paper towel on my tung to get it damp
Even better yet, brush with a clean soft brush.

If you can also cool the place down the cooler temps will let the finish stay wet longer and penitrate

Bill - willierods.com

Greg what cp are you using? It looks likecp is not dry enough.

When this happened to me it was on my second and final coat of finish so air escaping the threads would not be an issue. I am in south Alabama so humidity is crazy here in the summer. Also, I didn't use a tack cloth nor was CP used. I used an oil-less air compressor to lightly blow off the wraps.

Air in the finish comes from more than just the threads - it comes from the brush as well (if that's what you used). Some is already trapped in the finish when you stirred it.

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I don't like using a shammy. Had a nightmare with it once ... that was enough.

Have you thought of contamination from the tin foil ??? I understand there may be a slight coating of oil on tin foil.

I never touch my wraps while doing them or even after doing them.

I had this exact look once when i wasn't mixing tm lite enough. Since i started mixing way more than previous finishes, the problem was solved.