Greg,
I agree with Bill on the guide spacing near the tip.
The spacing of the guides is absolutely dependent on the particular blank being used.

If you have a very very slow action rod with a very slow tip action - the guides near the tip can be paced far apart.

If the rod has a moderate action, with a bit faster tip action - the guides near the tip can be placed a bit closer together.

If the rod has fast action - where you are beginning to see a pronounced quicker tip, then the guides near the tips need to be spaced even closer.

Finally, if the blank has an extra fast action, the tip guides need to be placed closer than with any other style blank to properly load the blank and keep the line running uniformly.


---
Generally, when space guides on a rod, I will flex the rod from the tip, and place a guide at the location, where the blank first flexes. Then, bend the tip a bit more and place another guide at the next bening spot on the blank. I will continue this process all the way down the tip. i.e. place a guide where the blank is bent, don't place a guide where the blank is not bent when the rod if fully flexed.
This may work out to be on average a guide every foot, every 2 feet, every three feet, or every three inches. It is just 100% dependent on the particular blank being used and how fast it flexes as it is loaded.


Roger



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2010 04:37PM by roger wilson.

Rainshadow has "recipes" for many of their blanks. I have found them to be reasonable. So FWIW this is what they list. Spacing from the tip down is 4.5", 4.75", 5", 5.75", 6", 7", 9" and 12"

Sounds like it will work with Greg's plan. That is only 3 guides in the first 14.25".

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Roger:

Your text:

"Generally, when space guides on a rod, I will flex the rod from the tip, and place a guide at the location, where the blank first flexes. Then, bend the tip a bit more and place another guide at the next bening spot on the blank."

Do you propose that a blank used to build fishing rods is a structure consisting of flat sections linked with "places" where bending occurrs?

Are you aware that "flat spots" on blanks are the horror of a blank desginer!

Double post, sorry.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2010 07:21PM by Russell Brunt.

Bill,
Absolutely not - i.e. not a bunch of flat spots on a blank.

My suggestions are simply a guide to make the initial guide placement.

My point is really quite simple.

When you began to flex a blank by putting pressure on the tip of the blank, you will notice one spot on the blank that makes the initial bend - hence the first guide location.

Then, as the blank is flexed further, another location for a guide will be found that is commensurate with the height of the guide for this location.

Then, on up to the butt of the rod.

Certainly a builder normally uses the general guide line that as the blank diameter grows, the spacing between guides increase.

My suggestion was just a very simple way to do the initial guide placement very quickly on a blank that a builder has never built on before.

Take care

Roger

bill boettcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Greg
> Thanks. Spacing on the tip being further apart is
> something I am hoping to achieve.
>
> IMHO this is not good The tip is the most flexible
> part of a rod and needs more guides to - Protect
> It - from breakage. All or most rods have the tip
> top guides closer together and as you go to the
> butt the spacing gets larger


Bill, where is the major flexing of the rod when under load with a fish on your rods? For whatever reason, after the static test I like to make sure the guides are taped solidly in place, put a good fish-fighting load on the blank, and make sure I have that critical section supported properly. Even with fast actions there's 10"-12" of the tip section pointing "straight" at the fish so I'm not sure if a guide needs to be much closer than 5" or so. If you epoxy a tip top onto a blank and tried to dead lift a cement block with it, I'm not convinced it would break near the tip but rather somewhere futher up the blank - unless you can snap the tip during casting and then I would think one's casting harder than needed. Then again I could be all wet . . .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2010 08:46PM by Tim Collins.

whoops - double post.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2010 08:45PM by Tim Collins.

You're not all wet. Unless you have those tip guides very far apart and high stick the rod, it will break back near the handle every time. Assuming, of course, that the blank is sound.

................

Tim,
Lately, especially with a lot of extra fast blanks that I have been building, I will often have the first tip guide further from the tip, than the distance between the 1st and 2nd guide.

When, I first started doing this, I thought it looked a bit strange and unconventional, but I came to the conclusion that it also made no sense to put a guide where none was needed.

Roger

i.e. take an example -
Distance from tip to first guide 5 inches.
Distance from first to 2nd guide 3 1/2 inches.
Distance from 2nd to 3rd guide 3 3/4 inches. etc. etc.

As you might imagine, a rod with this guide spacing looks a bit unconventional but it works perfectly for the particular rod being built on an extra fast blank.

Mike Carter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>l.
>
> All with Shimano 2500's 10# braid, guides 16, 8,
> 6, 4's out to the tip. Casts unweighted plastics
> and small spoons fantastic, and to my surprise, no
> wind knots.

I'll chime in to echo that guide strategy against the idea of a 30 or 25, with braid the 16 is just fine. I subtracted some larger guides and subbed in small ones and don't know if I see any reason at all to go any larger than Mike's quote above. I too thought there would be problems somewhere and switched back and forth on a taped test, but couldn't find any downside. Accuracy, distance, issues with reeling in line and fighting fish were all fine, no reason to go large anymore.

Braid changes things, wrap 'em on with some of that stretchy plumbers tape and see what you can get away with. I doubt you'll look at a 30 in the future for this type of build. Have fun.