I've been using the Batson micro's on a couple of builds and I have another couple coming up, but was wondering if I was missing something with the other brands. I've been with Batson's mostly because of their price point and reputation. The only thing that I wish they had were braced tip tops in the micro line (I don't recall one anyway).

What are your personal preferance in micros and why?

I use minima 4's. If somebody asks me for other types i build with them but if left to me, that is what i use mostly. Reasons are several:
They weigh pretty much the same as the batsons or fuji's, maybe a little less than their 4's.Recent article in Rodmaker bears that out and even shows them to be lighter.
They are easy to tie and get a little two turns bling wrap on them too . Try that on a 4 Fuji, your fingers and eyes have to be way better than mine! Cheap and durable so far.
But its the flexibility of the finished product that appeals to me most: if the guy wants a rod that will pass 8lb floro both approaches will work but if he decides to put a minnow under a cork with that same rod(yes a crazy extreme), the minimas will pass a bobber stop no problem. He may change his mind about a leader, i have even passed a small swivel (#8) through a minima so my rods cope with more situations.
Only downside is they do not look as small as the smallest fuji or batson so do not have quite the same wow factor plus they are silver which can be why some folks ask for other brands from me.

Tops still drive me nuts, i have as per suggestions tried ALPS 6 ring. Its OK but still clunky. Best of the bunch so far.Have that design but with the minima 4 as the ring part and i would be very happy especially in TiCr.
The fuji tops ring is too small.Tube and bracing is great/ make ring right size and the thing becomes clunky. The Minima tops just do not do it for me. Look like something from a cheap rod from the 70's. I am back to tying on a minima 4 at the top as a tip top but its not braced.So i do two coats PG on the tip just to make sure it stays put. Of course replacing broken tips become an issue then: Pg s very permanent!

Wade,
on my last few builds I have gone to the new American Tackle ringlock model with the contoured foot that increases the stability on the rod and helps to keep it from pulling out.

[www.mudhole.com]

On top of that they have the new braced tops down to a 4mm which are sweet...........

[www.mudhole.com]

Regards,

Todd

Regards,
Todd Vivian
Mud Hole Custom Tackle

todd@mudhole.com

For myself, I currently like what is available from American Tackle, the Ring Lock Micros. Between the shape of the guide foot, the necked area under the ring and the guide foot having a tunnel under it, I think they make for a better guide right now. I can easily get a couple wraps on a Forhan locking wrap on them in the necked down area on the guide. The tunnel under the guide foot, gives you more area of contact between the guide and the blank which I think helps hold the guide better to the blank when wrapped. RIght now for tips, I have been using the braced ones from Fuji.

I use the American tackle ring lock micros. I have had the Batson guides pull out even with a Forhan locking wrap. They just have too small a foot and no contour to hold onto and no tunnel while the American tackle guides address this.

Rolly Beenen
Rovic Custom Rods

i've used the fuji alconite, batson and amtak titaniums (sizes 3, 3.5, 4).

I'd have to say the batson's are not great in the fit and finish dept. I've had at least one ring come out after a season of use. The unbraced tops are ok, but i bend them quite frequently. The amtak are great, but its hard finding matching tips for the Ti finish.. i've been using the alconite silver tips with them.

Finally Fuji alconites are my favorite. Modest price, high quality and they have matching braced tops in up to a 6.0 tube. I've got some of Acid Rod's new SiC braced micro tops in the 6, 6.5 and 7 tubes and they are great match to the alconite black mircos for heavier rods.

Regards,
-Justin

I've been using the Batson's for going on f years, and have good results and not a single pullout.

Have popped 3 rings out of guides, one was without question my fault.
At the same time I've been asked to replace many 6 and 8mm guides that their rings have popped out on. So I don't think their failure rate is any different and maybe less then other stuff.

I have a few of the American Tackle guides on hand and while the foot’s shape may or may not provide better holding. I'm not sure the tunnels provide any additional holding or contact to the blank.
With the radius of the tunnel being many times less then the blank It seems to me all I would have is two narrow contact strips at each side with a gap in the middle, apposed the flatter Batson and Fuji’s one wider contact area.
Additionally the tunnel having a gap between the bank and foot would be harder to fill with epoxy then any slight gap that may be at the side edge of the feet on the other two brands.

I've had good success with Batsons size 3 and 4s. I admit I have had 6 rings pop out of them over the last 2.5 years.

Keep in mind though - that 6 may sound high. It's a .25% failure rate. Yes - a quarter of a percent (of about 2300 guides). That's good odds in my book.

Is the fit and finish the best? No. But I believe you have to put pricing in perspective. Batsons are close to half the price of other micros.

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AD

Why do any rings pop out ?? Are the guides too small for any knots that have to pass through the rings ?? Do they step on them ?? User abuse .

Do you get paid to replace the guides

Bill - willierods.com

Bill;
In my case
No knots used
#1 was fluke forget to strap rod down with other rods. When I arrived at lake rod was hanging from depth finder hung on a screw by a 3mm guide (the only thing holding rod in boat) all it cost me was a ring. I was happy to replace it. Totally my fault did not get paid to replace it.

#2 Person told me that he had other person in front of boat with him and thought that most likely it had been stepped on. Good client did not charge.

#3 Ring just popped out no clue why, could have been bad glue joint from factory. Popped it back in place added a bit of glue to each side, been holding for two years now. Again my rod did not get paid.

I doubt these are losing any more rings than any other series of ceramic guides.

.............

Bill B. read the original post clearly. He asked about preferances. Rings on micro guides do not pop out any more than standard sized guides. Even if you step on them there's way less chance of the ring popping out than on a standard sz 6 or larger guide. As for knots being able to pass through the rings the builder should ask questions as to what line set up the customer uses and it's the builders responsibility to see that the correct sized guide is used.

You seem to comment a whole lot about micro guides but honestly I don't think you've built one yet. What you should do is to quit guessing and speculating about these guides and the way they are set up and used and build yourself one so that you will have first hand knowledge about these specialty type guides and their uses and applications.

Lance

Lance:

the builder should ask questions as to what line set up the customer uses and it's the builders responsibility to see that the correct sized guide is used.

Your right / The builder if getting a lot of rings popping out should maybe go to Ring Locks ??
Or should even find out why they are popping

I lost a build to another builder who made the handle TOO LONG The customer was pitching and the handle rubbed his gut. For a few dollars - which we could have talked about - the customer got a rod that he did not like -said he could live with it - but I know it will in time bother him I do them RIGHT and this type of thing does not make me a happy camper.

I don't do things like that That is why I ask - maybe the rings ARE too small ??

Get the line the customer says he is using and tie the knot see if it does pass ???

Bill - willierods.com

I like the Batson's as well, I also REALLY like the new American Tackle line that is just coming out. Joe Meehan sent me a few and I'm really impressed with the design. Best looking micro I've ever seen.

DR

Duane:

Curious - there are several American Tackle Micro Guides presently available:

Your post:

"I also REALLY like the new American Tackle line that is just coming out"

Would you please let us know what model number was on the package of the micro guides you recieved.

Thanks

Thank you to all for your input.

Wade,

I have been using the Batson micro's 3.5,3.0 and now 2.5 and 2.0 for three seasons of perfect performance! Mine have been on Flippin sticks, pitching sticks, finess, topwater, shakey head, tube, spinnerbait, crankbait, skippin rods, worming rods and the list goes on and on. I have used Am Tak's, Fuji's and I have to say that I keep going back to the Batson's every time.

Tom

I like this thread, interesting reading. We came late to the “micro” guide gathering but we have been focused on improvement right from the start. We heard the rumblings of some issues with using these small guides. Whether genuine problems or not we didn’t like the idea of using existing guides designed for an entirely unique application on heavier gear rods, although we did upgrade the stainless to offer some standard frame styles to begin with. The problem is that these guides which have been around a very long time and used on extremely thin light blanks were never intended or designed for use on standard fishing rods. True to form though, discerning Custom Builders being masters of development & design helped them find their way into mainstream. We were approached to develop a micro that would be better suited for spin/cast rods and for use with heavier line applications. This is the type of challenge we excel at and our "ARTUS" Ring Lock version addresses ring loss and guide pull-out directly. Combined with the new braced Micro-top they make an impressive system that even Custom Builders can appreciate.

If you haven’t tried them, I hope you can consider them for a future build. (we even have a newer version being tested now that hopefully will hit the market soon so stay tuned)

Best Regards,

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company

Do you guys use a Forhan wrap on the ringlock guides or does the foot design provide enough security?