Let's hear, or see it.......your best, cleanest, neatest way to fill tunnels on single and double foot guides. Whats your method, and what tool do you use?

DR

I simply use a toothpick for the tunnels. I just take a small drop on the toothpick and set it up against the back side of the guide foot. Amount of the size of the drop depends on the size of the guide for obvious reasons.

I don't use CP and just let the finish permeate through the threads.

But I also don't build many "pretty" rods and most of the time use black thread on guide wraps regardless of how the back end of the rod is done

When I do a colored guidewrap, I still don't use CP. It still matches, albiet a different hue.

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AD

I almost always have an underwrap. It was how I was taught a salt water rod should be built. I coat my underwraps before I wrap the guides. Once the guides are wrapped I use enough epoxy to get some sag. I rotate by hand and when the guides are down the tunnels become well filled. I don't use CP very often.

I could see it being more of a hassle on single foot guides with no underwrap or blocking/locking wrap. In those cases I might be inclined to lay down a wrap of masking tape so I didn't get extra finish on the blank.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Good point Russ - we talking fresh or salt rods. I'm talking freshwater. Always good to clarify and I forget to do that.

My two main reasons for no CP -
1) I am after durability (fully encapsulated guide feet to help minimize pullout)
2) speed in construction (It's inefficient to stand there poking a toothpick in my wraps or framing them with tape)

Another thought -
Putting a drop of finish could easily trap an air bubble further down the guide foot. You've closed up the end, but you haven't encapsulated the foot.

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AD

I've always had problems filling what we call "tunnels". The problem I've found is that they aren't tunnels at all, but rather "caves". A tunnel has an opening on both ends. I've recently learned to wrap in such a fashion as to create an actual tunnel (too detailed to get into here). This helps to displace the air bubbles much easier and allows for easy filling from either end.

I apply finish with a disposable brush. I always split the bristles of the brush against the side of the guide leg at the base. I want about 4 or 5 bristles on the tunnel side of the guide leg ( the brush needs to be flattened out against the wrap to do this). This " wets" the opening of the tunnel ( finish has a problem flowing if the area isn't "wet") , then rotate the rod one revolution pulling finish around the wrap at the base of the guide leg. By doing this , the tunnels get filled ( at least the openings do). Now, after I have finished all the guides and it's ready for the drier, I will look closely for any bubbles that have emerged . After it has been rotating in the drier for about 20 minutes I look at it again and take care of any more that have appeared.
I don't think there is any way you can get finish to run into the tunnels, and fill them up , from the openings.
I agree with Alex. I think the only way to get the tunnels full is by going through the threads and this has to be done without using CP.
I have cut off quite a few guides that I wrapped and finished without CP (most of the time black thread) and the tunnels were completely full.

J.B.Hunt
Bowling Green, KY

And # 3. I think it makes a much nicer looking wrap. That might just be me.


Alex Dziengielewski Wrote:
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> Good point Russ - we talking fresh or salt rods.
> I'm talking freshwater. Always good to clarify and
> I forget to do that.
>
> My two main reasons for no CP -
> 1) I am after durability (fully encapsulated guide
> feet to help minimize pullout)
> 2) speed in construction (It's inefficient to
> stand there poking a toothpick in my wraps or
> framing them with tape)
>
> Another thought -
> Putting a drop of finish could easily trap an air
> bubble further down the guide foot. You've closed
> up the end, but you haven't encapsulated the foot.

I have an unorthodox trick that I use:

I use a locking wrap or 5 behind the foot of single foot guides, sometimes with a trim band as well. When I apply the epoxy I just let the brush swipe one time behind the foot of the guide to get the locking wraps and don't worry if I hit the blank with some extra. Then after I get all the guides done I go back and clean it off. I take a piece of paper towel and wet it with alcohol and fold it up so I can slide it down the blank towards the guide while the rod is spinning. This pushes a small bulge into the epoxy, which fills the tunnel, cleans it off the blank in a perfect, clean line, and the bulge settles out nice and flat as it dries as long as you didn't get too much there. It's a lot easier than it sounds, and comes out nice.

I hope this link works, but here is a pic from my photo gallery:

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Matt Smith
Greensboro, NC

Matthew - have you ever tried cutting the wraps off after using that technique to make sure you have a completely filled tunnel and there isn't an air bubble captured along the guide foot?

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AD

Yes I have cut them off, as a matter of fact, on the very rod that is in the picture. That is my bluefish rod, and I wasn't happy with the color of the original wraps. I couldn't tell you if there was an air bubble in there or not, but I can say that the "tunnel" was sealed and no moisture got in there, which is the point, after all, right? The way I heard/learned it was that the reason to seal the tunnel was for moisture prevention, whether it is salt or freshwater, and not for strength. That rod took some serious saltwater abuse and there would have been clear evidence if any moisture had gotten in. And there was no failure of any kind on the wraps, even after I beat the finish off the blank in places jigging 2oz Gotcha plugs and catching blues off a concrete pier. Those guides weren't going anywhere.

Matt Smith
Greensboro, NC

Matthew Smith Wrote:
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. I couldn't tell you if there
> was an air bubble in there or not, but I can say
> that the "tunnel" was sealed and no moisture got
> in there, which is the point, after all, right?

Yes - you don't want water intrusion. It's also for durability based on pull testing.

The guide is in there rock solid until the guide was bent, cracking the finish around the entrance to the tunnel, eventually then allowing water to seep through the crack and running in along the tunnel.

Every factory rod I have had where a guide pulled out from under the wraps had air bubbles along the sides of the foot. Most also had the "tunnel entrance" covered over but it was cracked or broken with rod use/abuse.

If it works for you - then great.

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AD

Thin CP or finish will penetrate better then heavy So for at least the first coat thinner finish would IMHO be better. Check out how flex Coat does it.

Bill - willierods.com

I always hear that the thread provides all the strength and the epoxy finish just protects the threads. I'm old enough to remember the days when guide finish was basically varnish.

But I had an experience a bit ago. It involved test casting my first sprial wrapped rod. Rod was rclb80xl and reel was penn 525 mag. I was using a two ounce sinker. I was trying a variety of casting styles from one handed baitcasting style to surf casting types.

I wrapped the guides on as normal. Black D IIRC but it could have been A. I didn't put finish on. I managed to rip the top two guides off. I also managed to break regular (not IFGA) 20# mono. It gave me some respect for the forces generated during casting. It also convinced me that expoxy finish adds more strength than it is credited with.

I sure can't understand how some manage test casting by taping guides on with masking tape!

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Freshwater.

Sometimes CP is a must, it just is.

I hate using it and I know a wrap is stronger and more water resistant when not using CP.

It seems I am doing several things that are mentioned: no cp, drop with toothpick, wipe of alcohol behind but with a coffee filter.

I was wondering if one might stand the rod on end (spinning) and toothpick drip fill the tunnels to start with, then throw it on the dryer and finish the wraps.....anyone tried it? I just did one 25mm SF that way and it worked very well.

DR

I have done it that way before DR, except in the day (not that long ago) when all I had was a hand wrapper. It worked fine for me. I may try it again on the rod I am working on now if I ever get Doc Ski's fade wraps done on it, haha.

Matt Smith
Greensboro, NC