My first two rods went pretty well, but for my third I decided to use a gold colored nylon thread wrap over a dark brown blank (Steffen Bros. fiberglass). Gudebrod rod varnish was then applied, but I got darker concentric rings showing on the wraps where the varnish appears to have penetrated in places where the wraps were less well packed together. I then decided that maybe these darker areas would lighten up with an application of the epoxy finish (Pac Bay), and they did maybe a little, but it still looks pretty bad. Besides the bad choice of thread color-- feel like I should have gone with a darker shade closer to the blank color, I used a new thread tensioning device and struggled trying to get even tension with it. My question is this: Can I fix this mess at this point, or do I write this off as a learning experience? I suppose the rod is still fully functional, but after my first two rods (Sage VT and Steffen Bros. 3/4), I'm pretty disappointed. Could I over-wrap the guides with another layer of the nylon thread without ruining the action of the rod? This would of course be a layer of thread over thread/1 coat of gudebrod varnish/1 coat of PacBay epoxy finish. Thanks, MC

Your best bet is to remove the guides and rewrap. Wrapping and finishing over top of the old wraps just add unneeded weight.

To remove the guides, use a razor blade and cut on top of the guide foot. After you cut through the thread, it should peel off. Any leftover epoxy can be cleaned up using a little heat and the edge of a credit card. Be careful, as too much heat can damage the blank. Since you are wrapping in the same place again, you don't need to get every last spec of old finish off, but try to get all you can.

A search for guide removal may help, as there are a number of threads about it.

Joe

Did you use color preserver or NCP thread? I didn't notice in your original post.

No, I did a test wrap with the Flexcoat color preserver, and noted the blotchy appearance (I thought it was a problem with the color preserver) and so decided to just go with the rod varnish over the regular (not NCP) nylon thread. I had never used the color preserver before, and so had no previous experience/knowledge of what to expect. MC

Hi, Mike,
I have been advised in the past to do some kind of light-colored treatment to the blank before using a light colored thread.
I've used Mylar® tape, silver metallic thread,or white Krylon® paint.

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble.It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Mark Twain
John in Wethersfield, CT

I am inclined to use a darker thread color-- maybe the garnet colored thread I used for the other two rods. This turned out a deep, rich burgundy color after spar varnish and PacBay finish with a beautiful even color on my other rods. I was starting to think I would turn pro after my first two efforts, but got a dose of reality. Oh well, this is the type of project you learn from, I suppose. MC

That rod varnish is a blank coating and it does not say anything about a Color Preserver ??

I would try one guide re wrap it Pack tight,and try a Color Preserver made to hold the color of the thread. At least two wet coats about an hour apart.. Let dry overnight then a coat of finish.

Also what I do is turn the bottles , finish, CPs, whatever, is turn the bottle over - slowly, do not shake, you will get bubbles that way, and see if any of the solids have went to the bottom of the bottle. Mix slowly.

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2010 10:38AM by bill boettcher.

If you decide to stick with the light colored wraps on a dark blank....and I like that look, btw....you can use a little testors model paint in white or the earlier post's mylar tape idea. I was AMAZED at the difference it made. I had the same experience with bright orange thread on a charcoal blank. Very discouraging at first. Attempt #2 with the undercoat totally changed the look....bright as can be.

Best of luck, no matter what you decide....and don't let one Ooops, or "Learning Opportunity" as my day job calls it, discourage you from following a passion. This forum is loaded with "oh crap!" posts....I know, because more than a couple of them are mine. ;)

-Scott

Also it is a good idea to test threads on the butt of the blank before the handle goes on to be sure.

Bill - willierods.com

Thanks, everyone. I think I will try to peel off the wraps and redo them. If I stay with the lighter colored thread, and paint underneath with model cement, do I still need to use a color preservative?

I you want the color the same as it comes off the spool. Yes With straight finish regular nylon thread becomes transparent. Even NCP thread I put at least one coat of CP on. But NCP thread does not look as nice as regular nylon with CP

Bill - willierods.com

From reviewing other posts, it seems that the best way to get the guides off is with gentle heat (hairdryer OK?) to soften the epoxy finish, and then use a razor blade down the metal guide feet, and then peel. Does that sound right? After that some scraping to remove residual finish. Any need to use a cleaning agent? Sanding? How sensitive is fiberglass to heat, scraping, etc.? Thanks again to everyone. MC

I once had an Ugly Stick blank that I was rebuilding on leech black into my yellow underwraps as soon as the Flexcoat epoxy hit it. I stripped it back down and coated the areas of the rod that I was going to wrap on with Gudebrods one part rod finish. problem solved....for me. Good luck.

1. clean the old wraps off your rod.
2. Select your new thread color, and do a test wrap on the blank. YOu don't have to have a guide under the wrap, just do a test wrap.
3. Then completly saturate the wrap with alcohol. By saturating the wrap with alchol, you will have a very good idea as to the final color of the coated thread wrap.
4. I personally dislike using color preserver. To each his own, I just don't like to use color preserver. I like the fact that the thread gets darker when you coat the thread.
Generally speaking, I like to match the guide thread wrap to the color of the blank.
Then, if I want some other color, I do the trim colors for the butt wraps, and try to avoid putting too much color on the rod in the area of the guides.


To remove the guides, simply use a heat gun to solften the finish. Then, using a razor blade on the guide side of the rod blank only, cut through the thread , where the guide foot is located. That way, as you cut through the thread, you will be bringing the blade edge down to the metal guide foot - not the rod blank.

After you have the thread cut and separated, I simply use a bit more gentle heat from a hair dryer or a heat gun to slightly soften the wrap finish. You will then be able to use your finger nail to pretty cleanly strip off the thread, guide foot and finish.
I then use a dull craft stick to scrape the rod blank to remove the slightly heated rod finish to get back to the base rod blank.

Take care
Roger

bill boettcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That rod varnish is a blank coating and it does
> not say anything about a Color Preserver ??
>

i find the gudebrod rod varnish or speedcoat works pretty well as a CP/sealant..

I've been using this in place of the CP for the last few builds/rebuilds as i find it's thinner than CP, flows better into the wraps, expels air from under guide foot wraps, and when it hardens/cures, it anchors the guide foot to the blank and yet, it keeps the thread color when applying rod finish..

but.. it's just me.. your mileage may vary..

-
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day..
Teach a man to fish, he'll be broke!

I stand corrected. I guess it does work I usually thin my CPs and put on several coats. This way as you say it penetrates the thread better. Then I also like the transparent look.

Bill - willierods.com

mike,

by any chance, did you let the varnish dry a few hours or so?

last night, I tried something similar.. used gudebrod goldenrod on a IMX blank.. though i overwrapped (in front of the foregrip/hosel) a short section (probably 1/2"), when i applied gudebrod speed coat (not varnish), the thread looked splotchy (dark patches) in some areas and looked ok at other areas.. I applied another coat of speed coat.. it looked the same after an hour or 2 ... but when i woke up this morning , almost all the dark patches have dried up to show an even color.

what i can assume, if you had done enough packing, is that the thread was still 'wet'. given enough time, the varnish should dry up and the thread will become opague. However, once coated with rod finish, the thread will probably take a long time to dry up, as the finish cures, sealing the thread.

-
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day..
Teach a man to fish, he'll be broke!

Yes, I let it dry overnight hoping that it would improve with time. A coat of the PacBay epoxy finish over this lightened it up a little, but the splotchy appearance remained. I followed advice and stripped off the guides and wraps, and rewrapped using the Garnet colored thread and Spar Varnish I have used previously and it looks great. I'll try the light thread/dark blank combo again in the future using some of the techniques mentioned above ( paint or tape under wrap, color preservative), but I have to say matching thread color to the blank is the easiest, and arguably the best looking approach. I also like the change in translucency and color that occurs with the nylon thread/spar varnish/epoxy finish combination. I want to once again thank all of you for your advice. You have saved me a lot of work figuring out this stuff (or not) on my own, the hard way. This is a great resource for learning the art ! MC