After testing quite a few blanks now it has come to my attention that the variance between one or more of the exact same blanks tested with the CCS system can be quite significant. I'm beginning to think it must be almost impossible to get all blanks of a specific manufacturer and size to spec out within a tight enough range as to print the ERN on the blank or model. Could this be a reason why mass production companies are reluctant to embrace the CCS system? Has anyone else noticed this variance? I have noticed some even test a full line weight higher or lower than the next, not to mention the AA (action angle) can be quite different from one blank to the next.

Larry,
I haven't had the opportunity to CCS matching blanks in the quantities you have. But I've tested enough individual fly blanks to know that I will never build a fly rod without first knowing the ERN/AA.

Jeff

Larry,

No, that's not the reason, if it was, they wouldn't be listing the current action and power specs which they already do. None of your blanks are likely to match those, either. They're simply target specs.

Due to the amount of hand labor involved, it is very difficult to produce blanks of verbatim power and action. Nearly all rod blanks of a given model will vary by at least a little. The better the quality control, the closer each blank will be.

When you get blanks that are off from each other by a wide margin, you've found a problem with good quality control. Doesn't mean the blanks aren't sound, just that someone isn't paying attention to all the little things that keep them as close to the target specs as they should be.

............

Jeff makes a good point - you can't depend entirely on the target specs. If you want to know what you've got, measure each blank.

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I can't speak to the consistency of large multiples of the same blank, but my results last week certainly showed a lot of discrepancies:

[rodbuilding.org]

Jason Cosby
Cos Rods

As a small basically "NO" inventory builder, this is may force me to carry at least some inventory. I tout a perticular rod for its qualities (website phone sale), sell it on how I describe the action, order it, and and when I recieve it, it tests lower than what I had explained. Now I have two options. Either sent it back and order another (wich takes a long time . More than I or a customer cares to wait. Not to mention the hassle) or build on that blank and hope that the action suits what I have explained to the buyer. Neither is a great option. Do any of you small guys keep some inventory on hand for situations like this? How do you handle it? I built an 8wt of brand "X" for myself a while back. The thing was a cannon, and had a great feel to it. So I talk a customer into this perticular blank, order it and when I recieved it tested almost a full line weight lower. I know without even trying this rod that it will not get the great distances that I was getting with the original rod. The original tested on the low to mid ranges of 8wt and the new blank tested mid a 7wt. What to do? I don't want to seem like im nit picking but I'm trying to build a good reputation as I am new to rod building, and the last thing I want to do is have people think I'm selling them a bill of goods.

Jason Cosby Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't speak to the consistency of large
> multiples of the same blank, but my results last
> week certainly showed a lot of discrepancies:
>
> [rodbuilding.org]

yes exactly what I'm talking about. Very interesting.

Larry,

Although there is a variance from blank to blank within the same model, it shouldn't be an extreme amount. When things begin to vary by a great deal and there has been no model change or tweaking by the maker, you're looking at poor quality control (just tacking or then trimming the same blank at slightly different points on the mandrel can make a world of difference in power and action). So one avenue you might want to consider is looking for another blank maker. I've run a good many thousands of blanks through here over the years and the better makes varied, but not by very much. During the testing for the article on rod breakage, I personally broke something like 40 blanks of the same model in the deadlift portion alone. Every single one of those blanks broke at between 23.5 and 24 pounds of load. I was impressed with the verbatim power in that model. The maker had obviously exercised excellent quality control.

..............

Larry,
If you're selling that particular line weight into a specific market (steelhead/salmon?) and like how the blank performs, consider requesting that your supplier CCS a few blanks and ship you three in the range you would find acceptable. This means you end up carrying inventory, but would allow you to offer the performance characteristics you are touting in your rods.

Jeff

The QC of the blank and the price you purchased that blank for should correlate to each other.
If the blank is a top line blank $250 or more then it should be expected to have very little variation probably within 1/2 a line weight. That's the additional cost for the increase in quality control and blanks should be consistent . The additional checks and reduced tolerance are not free and equal from everbody. As price drops so do the number of QC checks and the variation is allowed to wander to a higher level. Blanks from $100 to $250 probably can be expected to cast one line heavier or lighter. Blanks below $100 will probably experience the highest variance of 2 or even 3 line weights. If the blank was $50 dollars and was within 1 line weight I could say you've done well.
Who's the supplier ?? If you spent $350 and the blank was one line weight off you were cheated send it back and make him do what you're paying him for.
We have to pay for the quality level we expect.

Eugene Moore

Eugene,
That's a very good point you make. I believe you are right on the money. I think that might just be a conversation I will have with future potential customers. It makes alot of sense to at least point that out up front.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2010 06:25PM by Larry Damore.

I dunno Larry. If I went to buy a rod and the builder told me a $100 5 weight blank could come out as anything from a 4 to a 6 weight and that I'd have to spend $250 on the blank to be sure I got a 5 weight I'd walk away. Maybe I have it all wrong but shouldn't the builder be accountable for making sure the parts used are within spec and defect free?

P.S. I do see your side:)

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Ha Ha....wouldn't quite phrase it that way. But I see what you mean. Me= "with some of the higher end blanks there is sometimes less variance " yada yada yada. LOL....

I'm gonna be a stick in the mud here. I'll take my flogging with marshmallow coated blanks. How hard is it for a manufacturer to string up known weight, on a tip (of advertised size) already rigged for such, that is calculated to deflect a blank to 1/3, in a jig where it takes a couple of seconds to measure deflection against a backer board? We're doing it, and we don't have the kind of resources of major manufacturers. I see it as entirely feasible for one person to measure at least 100 blanks per hour. I'd gladly pay the salary for 30 seconds worth of labor, plus misc costs, in exchange for consistency.

Jason Cosby
Cos Rods

The better manufacturers already do this. But it will cost you a bit more. Good quality control costs something.

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Russ,

"Maybe I have it all wrong but shouldn't the builder be accountable for making sure the parts used are within spec and defect free? "

There are no specifications for a 5-wt rod other than the manufacturer put the number 5 on the rod.

As long as anglers insist on classifying rods by "weight", there are no specifications one must meet. That was the purpose of ERN and the CCS—to set some standards.