This post was made on another forum, I"m wondering what people think about the following statement:

"Since the advent of 24 million graphite, manufacturers around the world made what they called "advances" with graphite materials. <ost often they claimed, greater sensitivity, lighter, weight stronger. As Modulas grew so did the claims. Here is the facts. each material actually was no better. Nano Carbon is just as I said, another song and dnace, but, it is the cool guy term, just like carbon is the new cool guy term, and I laugh like @#$%& to myself when I hear people using these terms for the sole purpose of being in the "Know", "the in crowd"."

Think that is called -- Marketing

Bill - willierods.com

That's kinda the same way I feel about "green".

AMEN BILLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Put your seatbelts on when you all see the price of a singlehand fly rod from Loomis this fall made of new space age material!!! Mark my word, your jaw will drop!

Paul

That is like the orange painted blanks they call Carrot Stix. They sell ???

Bill - willierods.com

Take a 1970's vintage graphite rod and cast it against a modern graphite rod. Do you think you would be able to tell the difference?

Ah heck ... As long as I'm here today ...

I have not read this thread, and not sure how the quote was taken from context ... But if the quote is taken literally: I would call it a rather foolish (and uneducated) thing to say.

From what our shop has seen over the past decade, there have been on-going advancements / improvements in materials for composite tubes ... Especially in resin development.

... And more importantly to our benefits are how awareness of these advancements have been opportunistically applied by savvy composite tube engineers to improve our fishing rod blanks.

Our shop is asked to do design consultation for several rod blank manufacturers, and we see these advancements on a regular basis.

So I do not think it's a myth <> And thank goodness for us it's not ... };^) ... !!!

Bob Meiser

I think I have to go with what Bob Meiser says on this one. Advances in weight vs strength alone tell a huge story.

Sure, there's some marketing hipe in there. Currently, nano context has much significance as titanium (oxide) golf balls. Or, thermoplastic fly rods...hahumm.

I was under the impression that "graphite" referred to carbon atoms arranged in one specific crystalline form, and any other geometric arrangement of carbon atoms results in something other than graphite - like diamond. Am I misinformed?
If all graphite, like all asprin, must by definition be alike it would appear that advances in rod blanks are due entirely to new resins and new tapers. I'm curious to discover the facts here.

Ask yourselves this.....What blank has been introduced into the market that has rivaled the GLX or IMX? They've been on the fly rod market for over 10 years...the IMX well over 10 years! They are not "my" prefered blank to use due to the cost....

So where are the advances? Help me out...I'm open-mined.... Tapers surely dont make anything advances, just different.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2010 08:49PM by Paul Rotkis.

No argument here Paul. I'll add, what has Loomis done since Gary left 10yrs ago? He knows a thing or three about tapers, ferule design, etc. There have been some advancements, carbon scrim. Helios thermoplastic, I mean, look at those rod weights.

There's much higher modulus carbon out there but wall thickness is already pretty thin already. Epoxy has been the weak link in the matrix. What annoys me about marketing hipe is that practically a lie, it seems to mean something different (titanium golf balls). For example, Helios 'thermoplastic' is still an epoxy with a thermoplastic toughener added. Is there benefit, yes, but there's a whole nother story of thermoplastic that displaces epoxy. That would be a real advancement. Higher tensile/elongation. Nano will be the next buzz. It'll likely be some kind of nano talc, again in epoxy. Wing ding. Whereas 'nano carbon' is whole nother story.

Not long ago I had a conversation with2 well know blank designers at separate times. From what they told me is this. They did not know I had talked to the other. What they told me was that the carbon fibers used in the new blanks were thiner, but where the technology is, is in the new resins that have been designed. The new resigns are lighter and much more stronger than the resins used in the past. The new resins will give you a lighter and stronger blank. Imagine a rod that is designed to fight a 30 pound fish, but weighs in like a 2wt fly rod

Good Wraps Bob

I've heard several designers (including Gary Loomis) say the same. The graphite is the same graphite we were using 15 years ago. It's the resin and precision that have improved and they say that the resin is still getting better. Computers have helped to more precise tapers and the amount and type of material in a specific blank section, so they're literally able to design the thing inch by inch now. This is why I'm using a lot of fiberglass in my builds. Still not the best choice for a dedicated light lure rod, but not the clunky old brick that jumps to peoples' mind when glass is mentioned. At least not from those manufacturers pushing the envelope.

Jason Cosby
Cos Rods

The graphite hasn't changed.. the way it's made and it's diameter has changed. Being ignorant to technology is stupid but leaving the old behind is just as stupid. IM-6 and IM-7 Hexcel materials made some of my favorite blanks. E- and S- glass also make some great rods. Some of the high modulus blanks made to day are wonderful as well.. Billy,I'll bet he has no idea what nano Carbon is!!!

I can see making things better lighter, but when I tell a customer a price on the phone cause the blank alone is 300-400, and there is a pause as he gets off the floor and then decides to go to so and so store where they have micro guides and split grips on there much more inexpensive rods -- that does not do me any good. Reality check

Bill - willierods.com

Consider searching Toray carbon fiber.

Check out the links and sub-links from this site base.

We have found it to be a good answer source for questions that we have concerning whats happening today in carbon fiber technology.

If one finds this sort of thing interesting ... There is lots of source information available here.

Bob Meiser

Tell your customer that material prices have changed, along with technology. I can remember when I paid less than 3 grand for a Dodge 440 with a 4 speed slap trany. Remember you are a custom rod builder and you do thing that mass-producers don't have time to do

Good Wraps Bob

This is true Bob. I also remember a build I lost because of a 30.00 difference. But when the customer got the rod the handle was too long. I rubbed it in by telling him I would have asked many questions on how and where he fishes. My handle would have fit

Bill - willierods.com

Bill I also explain to my customers, that the rod I am building for them can not be compared to any off the shelf rod. I also show them the difference. Even tho I may be using some of the same components. I love it when I go to a big box store and watch a sales person whipping a rod around saying look at this action or high stinking the rod to show the power. These guys are laugh

Good Wraps Bob