I have been building rods for about 2 1/2 years and really enjoy it. 100% of my builds have been lite to heavy action bass fishing rods. I am in no way insinuating that I know everything, or even half of what most of you know.

When I first started, I bought a bunch of cheap blanks (2nds) to build and learn on. I had 1 blank that had a bad set to it, opposite the spine. Actually, the set was about 45 deg off of the spine. I tried to alter the set by bending the rod where I needed it, tieing it that way and giving it time to move.

Well I found the blank the other day, I forgot all about it and it had been sitting for 8 months. I removed the fishing line I had it tied with and the set was still there. I decided to build the rod as an experiment using mostly recovered materials from broken rods that I have accumulated. I built a casting rod with the set facing up so that the weight of the guides would straighten it out when finished. The rod came out beautiful, as nice as any other that I built. I put a reel on it and run the line through the guides and tied a spinnerbait on it to use this weekend.

When I was pulling on the spinnerbait, I noticed that as I loaded the rod it would snap to the left or right sharply, at about 45 deg.

I understand the thinking of building on the spine, and I have been told that for bass fishing the spine is not as important as it would be for heavier tackle. I have always tried to build on the spine but sometimes have moved slightly off to accomodate a slight bend. I won't buy a bent rod so I won't build one. However, in this case the bend was so bad that it definitley affects the way the rod performs. I think it will anyway and will know better after this weekend. I am interested in any similar experiences that any of you have had, good or bad?

Thanks,

Steve Chontos

I don't build on the spine. I build on the straightest axis

Steve,
You indicated that "as I loaded the rod, it would snap to the left or right sharply at about 45 degrees."
What do you exactly mean by this statement.
Do you mean that you have the rod elevated at 45 degree to the horizon and then as you work the spinner bait, that some portion of the rod moves to the right or left?
Of do you mean that as the rod is loaded- irrespective of the rod elevation that a portion of the rod moves 45 degrees?

If part of the rod is moving - how much of the rod is moving. i.e. 2 inches, 12 inches or 4 feet?

If part of the rod moves, how much of the rod moves, and by how much?

Also, when it gets down to it - whether the rod moves or not, as you are reeling in your spinner bait - does it actually have any effect on your fishing and your enjoyment of the rod?

---
As many of the other posters have suggested- most of us no longer worry about the spine of the rod, but rather, simply sight down the rod and build the rod on the straightest axis.

Take care
Roger

The rod is 6 1/2 ft, medium with a mod / fast action. I have not fished with it yet, only played with it in the garage. When holding the rod elevated at 45 deg, I pull straight down on the line testing the action. The rod bends straight down, but when I move the load left or right, the rod rolls over in that direction. Now the guides are on the side of the blank, not on top of it. It is occuring over the first 18 inches of the tip which is exactly where the bend was.

I would say that the bend was 3 inches over 18 inches at the tip, and it was not a smooth bend meaning it had a small kink to it too.

What I am wondering, is there too much bend to build on? When I am buying blanks, like at the expo, I buy the straightest blanks I can find. I should have built a spinning rod, I don't think there would have been any problems.

I am going to fish it Saturday and I'll know more then.

Thanks,

Steve



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2010 08:10AM by Steve Chontos.

Did you try flipping the rod over with the guides on the bottom (or top if you spiral wrapped it) and see if it made a difference? I am guessing it is not spiral wrapped and the effect you are noticing is the reason so many builders spiral wrap their casting rods. If it is spiral wrapped or a spin rod then ?????

my .02
Vic

The spine isn't important no matter what type rod you're building. If it was, there would be a lot of bad things happening to rods not oriented a certain way. There isn't.

You're going to find that a straight rod blank is a pretty hard thing to come by. Nearly all have some sort of curve or warp along their length. That's normal.

If your rod is "snapping to the left or right sharply" then something is pulling it in that direction. It simply isn't going to move in that direction when your spinnerbait is pulling from another direction.

Support the rod by the handle in the normal fishing position. Now grab the line and pull down on it. Does the blank "snap to the left of right sharply" while you're pulling straight down on the line?

.............

Hi,

My opinion is, you just make a straight rod. I use a lot of seconds or prototypes in my builds and they are rarely straight. Most blanks are rarely straight. Might seem odd but I am a very visual fisher in that I like to watch the bend in the rod more then landing the fish. Fish are great but nothing beats a loaded rod. The fact is, unless it’s a heavy rod I don’t notice it’s off spine while fishing or fighting a fish. Often my rod isn’t used with the guides straight up and down anyway which even on spine might have the tip roll to one side or another under a slight load. What I mean is that rods correctly on spine can still roll to one side or another since the guides are elevated above the blank (which is reason for considering a spiral wrap)

I often hear guys talk about manufactured rods not built on spine. This is true, but you have to understand why. In my experience while manufacturing rods, I would get the blanks from the previous day’s build and cull out straight blanks to be sold as “blank quality”. Anything from a slight bend to a curve would be “rod quality” for the day’s build. Anything resembling an S or damaged and flawed blanks would be a “second”. Beginning the process by affixing the top the straightest possible build would be picked sighting down the blank. The handle then the guides would later be lined up to the top. In guide alignment, the object was not only to have the guides aligned straight but to give the illusion of a straight rod through that alignment. Granted these were heavier saltwater rods and I can’t speak for any other manufacturer (ex. G. Loomis used to use straight blanks for their rods and sold the crooked ones as blanks) We never experienced any breakage or returns that I remember due to crooked rods (blanks) and we offered arguably the highest quality finished rod on the market. Just my personal experience with crooked blanks/rods.

Sorry to ramble on.

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company

Corrections/Additions,

I received some emails regarding my comments on setting up the build. I rambled on and wasn't clear. Rather then answer them individaully I thought maybe I can elaborate further.

We always tried to spine the blank first and foremost before any manipulation to build a "straight rod". Often there are more then one spine and we would pick the strongest or the one that works best to produce a straight rod. Most of the time we could build right on spine with straight guide alignments. Most of our "rod quality" blanks could probably be sold as blanks with no real issue, the rest were seconds. We tried to make sure that we kept our mandrels in good shape (straight/waxed), tacked the material correctly and adjusted cello-machines and rolling tables etc. to help produce better blanks/rods. Our sales reps used to sell on the fact that we built our rods on "spline" (in those days we called it "spline" not sure why) not like other lesser quality rods..... They just sold them and didn't have to build them.

The assembly methods were for mass production only.

The tops were done first and grips seat etc. would slide over the tops for handle assembly. We didn't mark the spine on the blanks w/tape etc. because in production the marks could easily disappear in the process. The tops helped aid in positioning the pull-throughs on the bottom.

We also could wrap the base wrap (first wrap on the blank without guides) prior to handle assembly if desired. The base wraps would be finished/epoxied and the handle could be assembled over the top of them. The guides were wrapped on later and just the foot wraps were finished/epoxied to finish off production.

Sorry for more rambling, hope this helps. Thank you for your comments.

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company

Terry, Tom, Victor, Roger and Darrin, thanks for your comments

Darrin, no problem rambling on my threads, seems that's where you'll find good information and I feel your posts are very good information

The rod is conventional casting, guides on top. I'll reply back to this thread Saturday evening after I have a chance to fish with it.

Thanks again,

Steve

Thanks Steve,

Tom actually made the best point in his comment, "If your rod is "snapping to the left or right sharply" then something is pulling it in that direction. It simply isn't going to move in that direction when your spinnerbait is pulling from another direction about not ".

That comment and his question would lead me to believe there is something else wrong in the blank's construction other then a simple curved shape. I would think that it might not be structurally sound and may break on a quick hook set or heavy load. Good luck, nothing like "field testing".

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company

Sounds like this blank may have become a 6'4 or a 6'2 if kept in inventory.
Sounds like a week tip.and may have to be trimmed. Think about this before you do trim. It will be a more stout blank

Bill - willierods.com

Steve,

Since the guides are on top, any pull not in direct line with the zero degree axis will attempt to twist/torque the blank to that side. This will remain true no matter where you orient the spine. I'm guessing that this is what you're seeing.

............

Steve,
It is just a guess but I think that what you might be seeing the affect of is something that happened in the manufacturing process when that blank was built to cause the spine to rotate in the blank over a relatively short distance. For example, the prepreg wadding up in one area when wrapped on the mandrel. This could cause the blank to want to twist as a varying load was applied. In other words the spine would be different for one blank deflection than for a little different deflection. It does seem to me though that the distance over which the spine rotated around the blank would have to be fairly short and the spine would have to be very pronounced for the blank to react as you describe.
You should be able to test this by checking the spine at several different deflections to see if the plane of the spine changes at different deflections. If it does then I think that you have the source of your problem. If it does not then I am full of prunes.

Got to be pretty bad to have the blank twist 45 degrees on just the weight of the lure.

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2010 08:39AM by bill boettcher.

It';s not twisting by the lure weight alone, I was pulling the line.

I fished today and although I didn't catch anything on this rod, it was very sensative. It fished good, comfortable, and I didn't notice anything weird about it. I'll keep using it and hope for the best. I am thinking along the lines of Darrin and Emory's posts that something else might have went wrong during manufacturing, it is rolling to the side more than any other rod I use.

I guess I learned that if I run across this again, I will build a shorter rod or a spinning rod. Maybe a spiral wrap but I'm just not into that just yet.

Thanks for all the input, it was all very good information.

Steve

If you build it with a spiral wrap, your problem will disappear. If you build it, or any rod, with the guides on top, the "problem" will remain. What you're experiencing is normal for any rod with the guides wrapped on top.

............

Steve,
After reading Tom's post and then reading your original post over again I think that I am full of prunes and Tom is correct and many blanks will react as you describe.

Steve,
Just as a point of final clarification:
If you turn your rod over so that the guides are on the bottom and you hold the rod firmly in your hand by the rod handle. When you pull on the line in a fashion that is similar to a fish pulling on the rod, do you notice any side to side deflection of the blank at all?
Or do you notice any tendency of the rod to rotate in your hand at all?

I am guessing that you won't.

Take care
Roger

Roger, Holding the rod firmly upside down and pulling the line as described, I do not notice anything weird going on. Pulling side to side the rod transitions smoothly, it does not try to rotate in my hand.

I understand what Tom is saying, it just seems exagerated with this blank. None of my other rods perform this way.

I think something occured during manufacture and that is what I'm seeing.

Thanks to everybody for all your comments, if anything else happens to this build, I'll start another thread and let you guys know.

Steve Chontos

Steve

just for the heck of it - put the guides up again and try with the line coming from the # 2 guide then the # 3 guide. See if it twists as much as if from the tip top.

Bill - willierods.com