Over the past couple of months I have applied thread master light to over 100 rods and most of them turned out sticky after several days and months of drying. It seems to be getting worse as the temperature has risen where I live. Even on some rods that were not sticky in Feb are now becoming sticky to the touch. Just found out what I did wrong. I was measuring equal parts by grams using an oz scale instead of using mearsuring devices such as graduated medicine cups. What I thought was equal parts say 10 gram of each is not equal. So what I have done is get some graduated measuing cups and put 10 cc of each part in the cups to make sure they are equal and then weighed them on my scale. What do you know that one weighs more than the other. If you are doing this the weights are as follows for 10 cc's. The hardner will weigh 13 grams and the resin will weigh 10 grams. Not far off if you are just doing 10 cc's. I was mixing 40 grams of each to do 20 rods at a time. So case in point I was short on hardner by 12 grams which = sticky finish. Going to go back and reapply finish on the ones that did not come out right. Thanks for letting me share.

Madfish Rods

Epoxies are intended to be measured by volume, not weight.

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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
I just spent $40 for a gram digital scale from West Marine to measure/weigh smaller portions of their (true) epoxy. They provide a pump to dispense epoxy at either 5 to one or 3 to one, depending which product and I am wasting epoxy. I have not tried it yet, however.
Perhaps a true epoxy's specific gravity is the same for resin and hardener - or - proportions are not that critical.
Herb

You should measure by volume which the pumps are designed to do. If you use the scale, you will have problems. If you measure by weight, you'll quickly find out what wasting epoxy is really all about, not to mention the time and effort wasted along with it.

Most epoxies are a 2 to 1 ratio mix. Fillers are added to make some, such as our rod building epoxies, a 1 to 1 ratio mix for simplicity.

Again, measure by volume not weight, at whatever ratio the manufacturer recommends.

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Tom Kirkman Wrote:
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> Epoxies are intended to be measured by volume, not
> weight.
>
> .................
Why in the world can't epoxies be measured by weight? This is often repeated around here and I have no idea why. Surely the weights of the two parts aren't that inconsistent.

I just weighed a full bottle of resin and a full bottle of hardener. Granted, it is not a a very accurate assessment, but it seems that resin is considerably heavier than hardener.
Combine that with the fact that syringes are neat, quick and easy, I would not be tempted to use a scale.

George Forster
Fort Collins, CO

they are a 1 -1 ratio. that is why your stuff is not drying It Is Just Not The Way To Do It.

Bill - willierods.com

It's not just repeated "around here," it's the manufacturers' instructions on how to properly measure their products.

To measure by weight you'd have to include a factor in order to make the portions arrive at even amounts (volume). You could certainly dispense equal portions by volume, weigh each, and then record the weight of each portion required for any given total volume mix. But that's a lot of trouble to go to when all you have to do is measure by volume to begin with.



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When i started this endeavor a few months ago I also thought it would be ok to measure by weight. After a couple of rods that would not dry and the questions to builders that followed I discovered that the difference in measuring by weight is about 20%. From my experience that was well outside the finishes tolerance and it would never dry.

Robert Russell Wrote:
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> Why in the world can't epoxies be measured by
> weight? This is often repeated around here and I
> have no idea why.


Uh, I would have to guess that its because the people who make the epoxies tell you to measure by volume and not by weight.

Why ask why? Geez. I don't even know where or why anyone get the idea of measuring by weight. There are about a million bits of info on how to measure epoxy for rod building, none of them say measure by weight.

Brad,
I use Threadmaster and live 20 miles from you. The area does not matter. I fill the large syringe using equal amounts and never have a problem. I can do 2-3 rods with the large syringe. BTW - we need to talk about the custom decals, I've done it a few times now. .... Brandan

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's not just repeated "around here," it's the
> manufacturers' instructions on how to properly
> measure their products.
>
> To measure by weight you'd have to include a
> factor in order to make the portions arrive at
> even amounts (volume). You could certainly
> dispense equal portions by volume, weigh each, and
> then record the weight of each portion required
> for any given total volume mix. But that's a lot
> of trouble to go to when all you have to do is
> measure by volume to begin with.
>
>
>
> ...............
Actually Tom, it is often repeated around here. I understand why the manufacturers do it. They want you to mix a minimum of 3 ccs to sell more product.

To Billy,
Assuming the two parts have consistent weight, which I have found they do when using a different brand than what is mentioned above, measuring by weight is much simpler and faster once you determine the ratio. Additionally, you can mix much smaller amounts with precision. Believe it or not, people ask why because they believe they are searching for better ways to do things. You can live you life never asking why, but how silly to get frustrated by those that do.

I prefer to live life doing things the right way. If I decide to use things improperly and do things the wrong way, I would make sure I TESTED on scraps before I put imporperly why ask why finish on 1 rod, let alone 100. Measuring by weight is not simpler or faster than leaving a syringe in a bottle and drawing out 1/2 CC and squirting it into a mixing cup. All mixing by weight does is allow people to royally screw up batches of rods, as seen in this thread. The only drawback to syringes....is those who ask why buy form a supplier if I can use the ones I got from my aunt the nurse, and they have silicone in them.

Why the Manu's say to use 3CC's? Because it allows people a little more error in the case they are off a little.

Billy,
Your wrong about what is easiest. Here's why I don't do it the "right way", haha. I started with syringes and got tired of buying new ones when the a scale wore off. Then I bought the syringe/ cap system from one of the vendors on here and it started leaking. Now, I pour from my epoxy bottles into the mixing cup sitting on a scale, nothing is easier. I haven't had a problem with screwing up a mix since I switched to weight. In fact, there is no reason it won't work better than by volume if you get the ratio correct. A cheap scale is much more accurate than the syringes, regardless of the amount mixed.

Finally, I'll also disagree with you about why vendors recommend what they do. As noted above, the precision offered by the scale is greater than the syringe. Maybe the weight of the two parts varies greatly, but I have not found this to be the case with the epoxy I use. That is the only reason you wouldn't want to use a scale. You'll find that many epoxy systems used outside of rod building provide both a volume and weight ratio. West, one of the largest epoxy makers in the world, does this for all their epoxy systems.

Robert

Robert

Your comment about why it's important to mix a minimum of 3ccs of each part is very much incorrect. The reason you should mix 3ccs of each component part is to enlarge your margin for error. If you're off a single drop on a total 1cc mix, you're in big trouble. But if you're off a single drop in a total 6cc mix, you're well within the margin of error and your finish will set and cure just fine.

Epoxy is very inexpensive. Time is not. Any time you have to redo, rewrap, reapply, etc., you've lost money. This is why mixing 3ccs of each component part is the least expensive way to do things.

When you stop seeing the manufacturers as folks who are trying to rip you off and instead see them as folks who want you to get good results with their product so you'll return and buy more, you'll have a much clearer view of how things actually work. I personally know most of the people who formulate and/or sell epoxy to the rod building public. They're not the type people you seem to think they are. Not even close. They're darn good people who bend over backwards to provide us with good products. Their instructions are intended solely to help you get good results, not to make you waste finish.

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What I don't understand is, unless for a repair, why would you need to mix less than 3cc of each. A decorative wrap and 7-8 guides will eat that up in no time with very little left over. I do mainly build saltwater rods so it may be different on some small fly rods and stuff but I'd rather have a little left over then have to recoat one because of a screw up.

I haven't had the graduations wear off so quckly that it seemed a major expense or hassle to order more, but if it should, a person could measure and mark t he barrels at the 3cc point or any other quantity. Then lightly run a tubing cutter around it and have a mark that would not wear off.

By the time you unscrew the cap off the top of one bottle and put it back on, I'm mixing both parts. We're arguing over 10 seconds, the difference is there are 3 people in this thread who have problems mixing by weight, and that is the problem. YOu talk about West systems epoxy, that is not a rod building epoxy, and that isnt' what we're talkign about here. YOu gotta realize there are hundreds of people reading this, and when you post you can measure by weight and a couple of them run into problems > it's bad information.

I have had the same syringes for the past 2 years, I've gone through 4 8oz bottls of finish, nothing has wore off. YOu're just flat out wrong about the reasons why the Manus recommend what they do. We're on a rod building forum, not a boating forum.

I buy 12 cc syringes and fill them up. I mix 1 to 1 1/2 cc's at a time. I like the consistency of the epoxy mixing small amounts. I get the syringes from Scott at Fishsticks. I use the same ones for 100 rods with no problem. One time I told Scott when ordering syringes that I liked to fill large syringes and build a few rods from the content. He didn't do that and seems to not think that was the best thing to do. I don't have epoxy issues so I'll keep doing it. Is there an issue with how I do it? Also, I tried a gram scale for urethane grips and had a mess on my hands. I do them with syringes now too.