I ran out of thread on my latest build. There's nothing worse than being charged $10 shipping for a $3, 1 ounce spool of thread. (As one board-sponsor/merchant tried to do the other day). Which board sponsors have you had luck with for shipping small items at sane prices?

BTW, it's funny to me that any merchant would squander a perfectly good opportunity to impress a new customer who might come back w/ big orders in the future. I've had excellent luck w/ Swampland (another board sponsor), but they're out of the specific thread I need. Gudebrod size D royal blue (color 245) in regular nylon.

@#$%& charge actual shipping cost.

It's equally odd that a rod builder couldn't find enough additional small items to include with the purchase of a spool of thread so that $10 shipping fee could be broken down into mere cents per item. A customer who is likely to "come back with big orders in the future" would be somebody that is actively engaged in the custom rod building business and therefore could certainly think of a few other items for future use that could have been included with that single spool of thread.

You're being very unfair to a business that has to face the harsh realities of what it actually costs to process, pick, pack and ship a single spool of thread.

............

Very well spoken Mr. Kirkman

<<<It's equally odd that a rod builder couldn't find enough additional small items to include with the purchase of a spool of thread so that $10 shipping fee could be broken down into mere cents per item.>>>
This is the LAST thing I need for a pair of rods I'm building for myself. I used to build a lot but moved overseas & don't build over there. I'm visiting the US for a couple months & popped out a couple rods. I'll move back here in a few years and resume building. And with all due respect, on principle I'll give my business to merchants who don't charge $10 to ship a tiny item that costs $3 for them to ship. Or $0.50 in the case of a few decals. From @#$%&'s web site, Shipping & FAQ page:

***quoted text***
We REFUSE to overcharge on shipping!

Online shipping over charges is one of the very reasons we looked at the online Rod Building market
and thought,"we can do that for less..."

For this reason we don't use an online shipping calculator. We don't mark up our shipping charges. You
pay what we pay, and that’s that. We also do NOT know what that is until your order is ready to go out
the door.
***quoted text***

Props to @#$%&.

Bryan, Why not offering to send the merchant a pre-paid mailer for your small items?

acid rod requires a 20 dollar minimum purchase it appears,

is there a local nylon thread supplier? I,ve never been forced to look.

<<<Bryan, Why not offering to send the merchant a pre-paid mailer for your small items?>>>
That's a good idea. I may offer to do that next time. Unless it's an envelope & stamp we're talking about. I find the people taking the orders rarely care about my case (in general, not just rod building stuff) and they just don't care if I go elsewhere. Really though, as long as there are at least a couple merchants around that are reasonable, I'm in good shape. I just ordered it from @#$%&, they were cool about the sub $20 order.

Swampland will refund money if you use the online order form and it over charges you for shipping. I ordered some micro guides from them and the online program wanted to charge me $14. When I got my guides in the mail they had included a $10. refund on shipping. Nice folks at SL.

I have to disagree with the comment that everyone is actively engage in a rod building business and has the luxary of ordering extra parts that is not need immediately. I have to say that shipping charges have become overly rated and it is not helping the bottom line for businesses. Shipping charges and labor is already imbedded in the price of the products and an added bonus is gained through the higher than actual shipping charges. It takes a person no more than 5 minutes to go down the isle get that 1 spool and put it in an envelope, slap a postage stamp and print out a shipping label, this probably translates into a $2 labor and overhead transaction that should be added to the total sale price of the item. I have at times put large orders in which includes stuff for future builds and as soon as I start building I forgot to order that one peice I needed or the size order could be wrong. I tell you Im not going to put another order and pay for added shipping, or even order and get more crap that I dont need just to justify the $10 shipping fee. This is where the lower or actual shipping charges help individuals like me. Not putting in that other oder is what hurts these businesses, not the lower shipping charge and thats what I find equally odd.

I have to disagree with Tom here, a lot of the retailers charge based on the $ value of shipping contents instead or an even close approximation of actual shipping. There is one sponser on this board that i just cant do business with. I do order multiple sets of guides at a time which will add up very quickly, next thing you know a 300 order of guides cost 20-30 to ship, when the actual charges are around 5. I would honestly rather pay more up front for honest rates then catch it on the back side and not know what hit me. How many items would you have to order to spread out that shipping charge to cents an order when the shipping charges are based off of total dollars spent instead of actual shipping charges?

The amount of profit on any individual blank or component is not nearly what most think it is. The rod building industry is in a crisis right now and has been for a few years. If you fellows only knew...

Larger companies generally figure shipping and handling on dollar charges. They lose a little on this order, make a little on another . The shipping charge on a dollar amount may be constant, but the weight of a large epoxy kit will be vastly different than that on a box of thread.


.............

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The rod building industry is in a crisis right now and
> has been for a few years. If you fellows only knew...


Most distributors of ANY commodity are struggling - especially with the increasing economic pressures.

Order processing is a HUGE expense, shipping/packaging is right behind it. My company spends more on those two categories than we do for fixed ops for 50,000SF + general overhead.

IMO, those that don't charge for their time and indirect expenses will eventually pay the price themselves ... after all, someone has to.

Whenever I've ordered something small, where I know it will fit in an envelope and likely won't get damaged (such as a winding check or guide), I will specifically write a comment on my internet order asking them to mail it in an envelope at a cheaper cost. I've had pretty good results doing that. I figure no harm in asking.

Dave Fowler

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
The
> shipping charge on a dollar amount may be
> constant, but the weight of a large epoxy kit will
> be vastly different than that on a box of thread.
>
>
> .............


I agree completely, so why loose $ on one orders shipping and then stick it to the next guy that orders thread or winding checks, I have no problem the shipping for my order, but I dont like the thought of having to pay higher shipping to help offset their flawed system that caused them to loose $ on someone elses order. The entire economy is in a crisis, even many of the builders on this board, not just the rod building community

Tony Woodruff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> acid rod requires a 20 dollar minimum purchase it
> appears,

If you read on when you see that message, you'll see that we accept orders under $20 by phone. The reason for this is that we get hit with a "small order processing fee" of $5 by the bank on anything under $20 through the web server. We can however manually enter totals under $20 into our credit card terminal and avoid it.

In all fairness to suppliers with flat fee shipping, they can generally get an order out the door a full 24 hours before we can. Pulling, packing, weighing, billing, then shipping takes MUCH longer than not having to deal with shipping charges and doubling back to add them to the order.

Brian's spool of thread will cost him $1.75 for shipping. I can guarantee we don't make anything on those orders, but it's a "golden rule" kind of thing and we hope he'll remember us for his next build. You'd probably be surprised at the number of calls we get on a daily basis saying basically "I placed my order yesterday and stll don't have a tracking number." Well, there were fifty orders in front of it and every time Colleen picks up the phone to explain it, that's another package that didn't get shipped in the five minutes she was on the phone. We've given up on trying to please everyone and just try and be as fair as we can.

To confirm what Tom said above, each of us put in 65- 69 hours this week and we're not getting rich by any means. Making some nice friends though... lol

Mark Griffin
[]
C&M Custom Tackle
San Dimas, California



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2010 01:27AM by Mark Griffin.

Well there's good points here. The shipping per dollar value I find is a scam, not everything weighs the same, but all take the same time to pick and pack. I understand to charge extra for overweight or oversized items since the shipping company charges more. It is nice to see merchants charging the actual shipping costs. Helps the hobbiest on a budget (like myself). I also find a minimum $20 order isnt that bad. I can easily make a $20 order. If your new to this hobby you always need something else, therefore $20 adds up quickly and shipping would be reasonable, if the merchant charges actual shipping cost. In your case look for a thread that you dont have or if you use lots of that color buy another or a bigger one. Lets face it, the shipping on 3 spools of thread wont be much more then shipping for just one.

Shipping cost is my best excuse for buying more stuff, at least that's what I tell my wife when she gets the credit card bill.

Honey, I only needed some thread and a guide or 2, but to even out the shipping charges I just went ahead and picked up a few more things. Then she yells; $400 more things!!!...time to slither back out to the garage.

I'm just a hobby guy and been building for personal use a couple yrs. I have 27 rods last count. Last week I ordered 12 spools of thread and the shipping spread was $6.95 between dealers. The spread in thread prices was $1.92. The lowest shipper also had the lowest thread price. Total savings was $8.87...or .79 a spool. I have more extra stuff than I need and adding more to make up high shipping costs is a total waste of my money. Sure the dealers like it but I don't.

Some dealers just don't get it when it come to customer satisfaction. Like Brian said, treat me right on the small orders and I will return with the big orders. Several weeks ago I emailed a dealer to get info on his "new" product. Instead of giving me detailed info he responded by referring me to another company for the info. When I went to that company's web site HE is the owner and contact there too...same person. Whatever his reason for referring me back to him via another web site is beyond my understanding...neither of the responses from him were very detailed but he stated pics would be up "tomorrow" so I could see. There was no tomorrow...it took a week for the pics to be posted. Money was burning a hole in my pocket waiting to buy his "new" product but I felt jerked around and he lost me as a customer. Since that time I've purchased a total of 47 spools of a similar product from another vendor (sponsor here)...plus a bag full of other goodies. Yep, very harsh times are happening, especially for those who don't put a smile on customers faces.

bp

Mark Griffin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tony Woodruff Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > acid rod requires a 20 dollar minimum purchase
> it
> > appears,
>
> If you read on when you see that message, you'll
> see that we accept orders under $20 by phone. The
> reason for this is that we get hit with a "small
> order processing fee" of $5 by the bank on
> anything under $20 through the web server. We can
> however manually enter totals under $20 into our
> credit card terminal and avoid it.
>
> In all fairness to suppliers with flat fee
> shipping, they can generally get an order out the
> door a full 24 hours before we can. Pulling,
> packing, weighing, billing, then shipping takes
> MUCH longer than not having to deal with shipping
> charges and doubling back to add them to the
> order.
>
> Brian's spool of thread will cost him $1.75 for
> shipping. I can guarantee we don't make anything
> on those orders, but it's a "golden rule" kind of
> thing and we hope he'll remember us for his next
> build. You'd probably be surprised at the number
> of calls we get on a daily basis saying basically
> "I placed my order yesterday and stll don't have a
> tracking number." Well, there were fifty orders
> in front of it and every time Colleen picks up the
> phone to explain it, that's another package that
> didn't get shipped in the five minutes she was on
> the phone. We've given up on trying to please
> everyone and just try and be as fair as we can.
>
> To confirm what Tom said above, each of us put in
> 65- 69 hours this week and we're not getting rich
> by any means. Making some nice friends though...
> lol



Thanks on pointing that out Mark, as usual I didn't finish the read. I for one have not bought from you guys, but I haven't built rods very long either, I'll consider ya next time.

I'd like to say, this is a common sense post, to me. and this is a great example of life in the buisness world. This is fair good buisness.

Some people believe the glass is half empty others think its half full.