I have built many many spiral wrapped rods in the last few years with generally happy clients.

However, I have had a rod come back today with a request that the guides be stripped and rewrapped in a conventional manner.

This client uses this particular rod to fish for Muskies - throwing 3-5 oz lures many casts a day - with 80 lb test braided line.

He has several other rods that are used in a similar fashion, all loaded with similar reels and the very same 80 lb test line.

He noticed that over a period of a few months last summer that he ended up having to replace the braided line on the spiral wrapped rod about 4 times, due to the line fraying.

In contrast on the 4 other rods that he indicated had about hte same number of casts on them - never had to have the line replaced to to line fraying.

So, of course, I will strip the rod and rewrap the guides in a conventional manner - per his requrest.

The question that I ask, is simply this:

Have any other builders out there ever run into this situaiton, i.e. having a spiral wrapped rod, pitching heavy lures using heavy 80 lb line - causing excessive wear compared to a conventional rod?

I think that most of my clients who are using similar rods are mainly casting mono line compared to braid, so this may be the issue.

But, I would appreciate any thoughts or other personal experience. Just as a note, the spiral wrap is the same revolver wrap that I have been using for some time and has been very successful and has led to very satisfied customers - expect for this one rod.
The guide type, size, location and orientation are virtually identical to my other rods, for which I have had no issues.

Take care
Roger



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2010 10:52AM by roger wilson.

Doesnt' even make sense. Line touches ceramic unless rod is built wrong. I promise he's not using teh rod nearly as hard as SW fishermen, especailly not guides or charters or commercials. Maybe one of teh guides is screwed up, maybe it's teh reel, maybe it's somethign else, teh last thing I would think of blaming is where teh guides are placed.

Like Billy - I think I would inspect teh guides to make sure one hasn't gotta roughed up or even teh line guide on the reel.


Is the line fraying in the same spot - say 12" from the lure (just using a # for example)?

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Billy,
I can't agree with you more.

The only thing that may separate this rod, is the number of casts made per day. The client indicated that this rod makes many casts per day with heavy lures and heavy line.

When you compare salt water rods, are you speaking of rods that are used for casting - many times per day, or trolling rods, where the rod is let out and reeled in when baits are changed and or a fish is caught?

As I said in the post, the guide size, layout, orientation are virtually identical to many other spiral wrapped rods that I have made in the past and used successfully both by clients as well as myself.

Roger



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2010 10:51AM by roger wilson.

Alex,
My thought exactly. That is what I am going to do before I do anything else.
Roger

I can hardly imagine that it's the guide placement. If it was, others would be running into the same issue all the time. The line is wearing on something, a cracked guide, the reel, etc. - I'm with Alex on this one. Let us know if you find anything.

jeremy

Roger, I'd easily compare it to a deep speed jigging rods where the line is from 3-400ft out to all on the spool about a hundred times in a single day all with either a 4-9oz jig or fish on the end. Thats likely one of the most torturous uses of a saltwater rod without ever being connected to a fish. NEVER have I had any issues with my spiral wrapped rods on even these rods.

2 little other options

1) guides under magnification, under tension (heavy lure), a hairline fracture that would never really affect line will be really annoying and hard to detect with the naked eye (I doubt its the tip however, as the fraying would become quickly apparent)

2) if he uses a levelwind reel, the levelwind guide itself (one culprit that I've missed on a couple occasions)

All,
Thanks for the update.
I found the problem.
The problem is the guide that I used for this rod really wasn't up to the task.

I have used this particular guide brand and style before on many other lighter action rods.

However, for this heavy use, the guides are showing excessive wear.

I won't mention the brand or style of the guides, because I have used this guide for other applications and it is a fine guide. Just not for this application.

I use a q-tip and ran it through all f the guides with no issues found.

However, I then ran a scalpel around each guide with its very very sharp edge and point and found that essentially the first three guides on the rod are no longer useful - i.e. completly worn beyond useful life. In contrast, the balance of the running guides on the rod were just fine with absolutely no sign of a problem. Also, since the tip was of a different material, it was also just fine.

I just need to select the appropriate style guide for this particular application and I am sure that it will be fine.

It also makes sense to me that this is the only heavy action spiral wrapped rod that I have had issues with. This is the only guide that I have used this particular brand and style guide.

I will rewrap the rod with my normal guides that I use for this application and I am sure that it will be just fine.

Thanks again for the hints. I knew better, but sometimes I get wrapped up in the trees so can no longer see the forest. Thanks again.

Roger



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2010 05:14PM by roger wilson.

If the guy is throwing a 4oz lure every 12 seconds for eight hours straight, he's the one who might be frayed..

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Roger;
If the guides are the problem, it won’t mater which way you warp them same problem is going to happen again if you use the same guides.

If there is are inserts rings in those guides, what is the insert material made of?

Steve,
You are absolutely correct.
I have used this style guides before on other light action rods. But apparently they aren't up to the task of this heavier application.
So, I will be using my normal guides that I routinely use on all of my heavy action rods.

This was a bit of an experiment to verify if these guides would hold up and I found the answer quite quickly.
The client only had the rod a month before he started noticing issues with the line.

A bit of education is always a good thing.

Yes, the guides that I will be wrapping back on the rod will have a high quality insert and I have never had issues with this particular guide.

Take care
Roger

Roger;
Sorry for not being clear.
I was asking if the guides causing the problems had inserts, and if so what was the insert material made out of?

HE doesn't want to badmouth the company who made the guides, since it seems like he is taking responsibility for selecting teh wrong guides for teh application.

Thousands of casts - what difference does casting make, when a SW fish takes 45 minutes pulling at 15-20#'s of drag - that alone is more abuse than 10 months of Musky casting combined. I hope your customer tells you he is making thousands of casts 200 yards long, because then I'd have 2 things to not believe. LEts see, 10 hours a day fishing, 600 minutes, 36000 seconds. If he made 1,000 casts a day he would be making a cast every 3.6 seconds, for 10 hours straight - no lunch break, no moving th boat, no catching fish, no hanging up, no retrieve. I'd guess he doesn't make 100 casts a day.

Billy,
That is right!
Roger

Agreed, Billy. I'm reading this post going, "yeah right!" Not a chance a rod is making thousands of casts in a day. Funny stuff.

AC
FishinFreaks
Rogers, MN

Roger

What are your Normal Guides ?

Bill - willierods.com

If you don't want to tell what specific guide it is, could you at least let us know what ring material you were using. I think it would help alot of folks learn what not to use.

1,000s of casts a day? I think everyone has already said what I'm thinking...

Bill,
Most of the guides that I use are the Fuji Alconite guides, with which, I have had 0 problems.

Roger

Have you ever looked at the Fuji silicone nitride II

Bill - willierods.com

Bill,
Yes, I have used those guides as well. But I have found that the alconite guides give me excellent performance with no signs of wear on the heaviest rods that I build so for the value oriented clients, I see no need to use the nitride II guides. I do believe that they are a better and perhaps nicer guide, but for a "servicable rod" to represent a good value with virtually no problems, the alconite work great.

Take care
Roger