I have always wondered about this, but I have never brought it up. Obviously we pay a little bit extra for GLoomis blanks, or Orvis blanks; however when compared to smaller companies it seems that you can get a lot more bang for your buck. For example I have heard the MHX blanks compared to the GLoomis IMX series. The difference in price in those two blanks is $100 or more. I guess what I am asking is at what point is the increase in quality non-comparable to the increase in price? Just a thought.

That's a tough question to answer. No doubt there is a cost associated with the type of R&D that provides builders with the new technology and models that most of the oriental makers are copying. It's always less expensive to copy something than to pioneer something new. And, most of the name brand U.S. makers like to tout the idea that they pay much greater attention to quality control, from a closer inspection of the materials they use to build their blanks with on down through the actual manufacturing process. They also maintain replacement parts (tips and butts) and because they're here in the U.S., it's possible to talk with the people who actually make the blanks. For many, these things make paying more worth every penny.

Now having said that, I also need to be fair and mention that in many cases some of the blanks coming out of the orient and elsewhere offer a tremendous value for the money. I wouldn't have said that 15 years ago, but it seems that each and every year blanks made overseas continue to improve and in many cases offer performance that rivals similar blanks costing 2 and 3 times as much. I don't think builders nor fishermen are nearly as leery of using and fishing with blanks and rods made in the orient as they were a decade or more ago. And with good reason. The stuff has gotten much, much better. It's often extremely good in those cases where the importer maintains a close watch on the quality of the product coming in.

.............

price does not mean Quality. IMHO

Bill - willierods.com

I saw the other day on the news that China is having a problem finding quality workers for their plants and some have had to increase their minimum rage to just over a dollar and hour to keep them. Just comparing wages the US built blank is a great deal.

IMO, the big two fly rod companies, Sage and Loomis, are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over priced! Period. Look at how stinkin many advertisments they have in so many magazines!!!!! How do you think they pay for those costly adds? With $500-700 factory fly rods with crooked guides, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much thread finish, and blanks that resemble boomerangs. And of course some diatribe that explains why this rod is soooooooooooooooo much better than last years model....then they brainwash the salesmen/fly shop owners too. Yes, brainwash. Cause I was one that was brainwashed at a given point in my life.

But now that I have steped out of that world, I have a much more educated view and opinion. I have sold thousands of factory fly rods to people. And I can tell you with real world experience: there is not a factory fly rod out there that is worth $500. Think about it: I can take a $150 dollar rod, cast just as far, manage the fly line just the same, and still not have a sore shoulder or fore-arm. The market has "drank the cool-aid." period.

I know, I will hear all sorts of justifications for their cost. Blah-blah-blah. But the bottom line is they have to pay for advertisers, their reps, the few folks wraping the rods, and SO MUCH OVERHEAD. Just curious, does anyone "REALLY" know what a rod wrapper for a major factory rod makes? Its not anywhere even close to what you think. Some even wrap the rods at their house!

SPENCER:
China and the US is having a hard time finding quality workers for rod?..Just look at any factory Loomis rod- we're in the same boat. But sure, we pay ours more than 1.00/hr.

Anway...thats just my .02, now let me have it.

Paul

Not to mention the "unconditional lifetime warranty" that figures on replacing the blank 3 times, on average.

George Forster
Fort Collins, CO

Paul I agree with you. In time the fly fishermen caught on and have learned a bit of a lesson in the last few years. But the people who built that industry with their clever marketing have now moved on to the bass market and inflated the price of bass rods and reels to an extent as great or more than they ever did in the fly fishing end of things. Somebody is always willing to give you their money if only you can make a good case for why they should!

if people want to buy -- The Name -- so be it.

Bill - willierods.com

Would have to agree. The batson, and MHX blanks IMO are made just as good if not better than the Loomis, or st. croix blanks. I rarely if ever have any quality control issues. Even the cheapest mudhole blanks are made much better than blanks of several years ago. After building on the Batson and MHX blanks, I will never go back to the big 2 unless specifically asked to. But I will explain to the person the costs associated with a name.

I look at this a bit differently. There is a reason why so many overseas blank makers have spent the last twenty years COPYING Loomis and others. Any time somebody tells me that their blank is just as good as a Loomis or whatever, I tend to think I should get the blank that everyone is comparing to. After fooling around with some of the imports I would say they are pretty good, but the failure rate was greater than what I experienced with the name brands. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not.

The comment of the Fly fishing market is dead on.....I can in no way understand how they can charge some of the prices they charge for a fly reel compared to a baitcaster....regardless of materials there is nowhere near the amount of gears and design involved in a fly reel as compared to a baitcaster.
l
On topic....I never got into using Loomis blanks simply because I didnt see the value....when I got a wholesale account I was amazed at the difference in wholesale vs. retail pricing of the loomis blanks also..

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com

I still say how much Technology can you put into a graphite blank.

Bill - willierods.com

This is an interesting topic. I used to work in the retail ski business years ago and watched as the big name ski manufacturers squeezed out the big box retailers and moved all ski equipment related sales into "specialty" ski shops. There wasn't really anything special about the shops at all, but the exclusivity myth was born and henceforth ski equipment pricing was controlled by the industry, not retailers, and predictably the prices sky rocketed. Alpine skiing was now an official elite priced activity.

I watched in disbelief as the same thing happened to the fly fishing industry. I remember that once upon a time you could go down to the local sporting goods store and find a nice fly rod on the rack - Fenwick comes to mind here. The pricing was reasonable, if not comparable to other types of fishing rods. Then fly fishing tackle took that same fork in the road that ski equipment did. Suddenly, fly rods and all the fly fishing related gear were in "specialty" stores (or they had their own exclusive section) and the pricing was now special too!

I've never been able to figure out why this happened to fly fishing? I've yet to see another area of fishing (bass fishing is getting real close) that is built on exclusivity - not like fly fishing anyway. I think those that perpetuated the elite myth that now pervades fly fishnng were short sighted, because it has made it mightily hard for them to come down from the mountain top. There's an old saying, "it's easier to get on the tiger's back then it is to get off."

I'm not at all surprised that the oriental market has responded to this. They will, without a doubt be making a fly rod blank or complete rod every bit as good as the American makers do. I also don't doubt that they already know how to make a top end fly rod. I cast a Diamondback Flawless not long ago and all I can say is - their here!

It is all about greed. my rod is what YOU should have. You can not do better then the rod I will build for you You will LOVE it I Guarantee it. it is made with SPECIAL polymers that give it the Performance that you will love. ---- Blaa Blaa Blaa

Greed -- Hype

The shame is people believe it !!!! ????

All i do is tell the truth. I do not sell snow balls to the Devel.

Bill - willierods.com

I guess I am missing where the bass equipment market is exclusive and specialty since every store in the world has bass gear and the big price point from manufacturers was under $100 this year - tesseras, vendettas, wright and mcgill (skeet), etc -- and if you bump to $150 you have a whole more group of bass rods and haven't come close to being "expensive" stuff - duckett, carrot, shimanos, etc.

Think about this...
Skeeter just unveiled a new bass boat retailing at $70,000 (yes that is correct). And they had a line at the door for guys wanting to buy one. A Humminbird 1197 side image depth finder is another $3,000 added to that. PowerPoles are another $1000 to $3000, etc...

What's a $300 rod in that equation?

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Whew...I am glad there are a few other folks that agree with me...I thought I was gonna get my teeth kicked in. Thanks you guys! :)

JOHN: Bingo to you sir! Bravo!

GEORGE: I forgot about that!

PETER: thats what it sounds like to me too and from folks talking on here. Great comparison.

BARRY: The reason for the comaprison is simple: it's like buying a FORD, CHEVY, GMC, and DODGE; I compare these when I go and buy. Same thing with blanks; most folks would comapre all makers. However, why would you spend 150.00 (For numerical purposes.) more for a Sage blank than a Batson RX 7 or 8? Do you HONESTLY think you are getting a better rod? No better warranty. If its a status symbol then I will give you that sir.

But I can tell you from many years of selling fly rods at the retail end, I have seen so many Loomis and Sage rods come back broken (For whatever reason.) that it would make your head spin. Example: The G. Loomis GL4 multi-million dollar mistake rod. We called these rods the "boomerang" rod. Ya sell one and within days it comes back to the store broken. Not just one here and there, ALL. You would think the guys that are getting paid 100,000.00 year would get it right the first time. So much for the soupbowl of letter after ones' name! Now I cannot compare failure rates accuratly because I do not build on the big two blanks due to there high cost, poor value, and the personal expereince of seeing waaaaaaaaaaaaay too many failures.

Don't get me wrong, if you THINK you are getting a better rod with the big-two makers, or you think that you are really keeping lots of jobs on the US, and if it makes ya feel good, by all means shell out the Benjimans for them-God bless America! But, don't be surprised when someday you have that "AH-HA" moment.

Oh yeah, and fly reels too....oh boy I better leave that one well alone for now.

Paul

Fully agree on the pricing. I wonder why I so rarely hear mention of Calstar in the line of affordable blanks, though. One can pick up a huge variety of blanks for less than $50 retail, and they are absolutely the best to be had. Yes, they're "big butted", but the tip size is kept down for sensitivity and all of them have great backbone. I suppose it's because they don't advertise (or have a website) that they fall somewhat under the radar. Don't hesitate based on quality if one of their blanks fits the bill--the quality will be there.

Uh-oh, it is subjective opinion time again ...



I believe that US manufacturers are the absolute leaders in innovation, now and into the future.

Still to this day, imported blanks are being cloned from designs that Gary Loomis, among others, created over 20 years ago! That should tell you all you need to know about the innovative nature of offshore products.

It is your money, spend it where you like. Just remember that there are consequences to not supporting our US manufacturers. So make sure to ask yourself if you are willing to be without them.

Here is a challenge … Sit down and do the math on two finished rods – one on a US blank and one on an imported blank. Make sure things are as equivalent as possible – for example MB843 versus MB843 in the same quality range – use the same guides, grips, labor, etc. Use your cost on each of the blanks – not some overinflated retail … put in a reasonable, but the same, markup on each blank. Once the basic math is done, calculate the actual retail difference in the finished rods.

IF the difference, let's say 10-20%, is going to "make or break" the sale ... I submit that you aren't serving a true custom rod client, you simply fabricated a sale.

Simply put, a sale based on $$$ isn't going to serve your long term business interests as a craftsman - that type of buyer won't be around in 5-6 years. Instead, they will have moved on to a less expensive builder OR the next fad that tickled their fancy.

Forgot to mention that Calstar is an American company and belongs in the innovator category with GLoomis and others. Most blanks are inspected by Leon Todd personally and no reject ever leaves the building for any reason. To me, this is a perfect example of: why buy anything imported when American made is right here and the price and quality are all there. If you want an ultralight graphite bass blank you won't find it from Calstar, but many other arenas are covered.

Jason Cosby
Cos Rods

if a lot of companies had there stuff made here the prices would be a lot higher. Because workers here need more to live Nuff said !!

Bill - willierods.com