oops! my bad

I did not mean to confuse the issue with esoteric facts about fly casting, but there are some significant differences between fly casting and spin casting and the equipment they require. I'm surprised and pleased to hear that micro guides are a big advance in fly fishing, but I would like to caution fly rod builders not to make the same mistake I did.
A few years ago I built a 9 wt. fly rod for myself on a 9' Gatti blank. I used small, single foot guides on the tip section. Although the rod was a delight to cast, the upper guides were of such a small diameter that the leader-to-line connection did not pass through these guides without great difficulty. I ended up stripping off the micro guides and replacing them with REC snake guides. Rod builders would be prudent to use a micrometer to determine the diameter of the leader-to-line connection before they purchase, let alone install micro guides on a fly rod.
I assume that tournament fly casters have pretty much abandoned snake guides in favor of micro guides. Has Lefty come around yet to endorsing micro guides on fly rods?

The idea should be the same as always - use the smallest guides that will easily pass any required connections and hold up to the rigors of what you're doing.

When you say "micro guide" you may want to specify the actual size you're talking about. It sounds like you used guides that were simply too small to easily pass your connections. Moving up just one size might have made all the difference.

.................

“I assume that tournament fly casters have pretty much abandoned snake guides in favor of micro guides. Has Lefty come around yet to endorsing micro guides on fly rods?”

I would not make that assumption at all.

I spent some time with Tommy Farmer about a month ago (he holds the world long distance casting records in all weight classes except one) and he new nothing of micro’s nor their existence.
Most likely is the same with the tournament fly fishing casters as well?

You can assume Mr. Kirkman has based on his results and comments, and I’ve shared personal results along with what might be limitations.
But they are still a relatively knew product in this part of the world especially in the bass, light saltwater and fly rod markets.

You also might want to look at these pictures to get an idea of micro sizes;
[www.rodbuilding.org]
[www.rodbuilding.org]
as you can see some of the smaller ones could indeed be a poor choice on some fly rods. But it does not mean that they could not work on others with the same exceptional results as Tom has found.
Also have some 2 and 1.5mm guides, but not at the time the photos were taken



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2010 10:40AM by Steve Gardner.

Tom:

Your query -

"Forgive me as I still don't really understand what constitutes a "micro guide."

Major component manufacturers now include 'micro guides" in their product listings.

The majority of the vendors who are listed on this site clearly identify the sizing of guides that are sold as "micro guides".

Custom builders now sell fishing rods using the term "micro guides".

At this point it is strictly good business -

The race is now on bringing production rods to the retail markets and the general fishing public using the term "micro guides". The term "micro rods" will soon be a fixture in the language of the purchasers of fishing rods. Time will tell if the terminology gains the popularity of "fly guides". Persnally it think micro guide is more approptriate for bass/walleye rods than "fly guides".

Most of the builders who build bass/walleye/inshore rods using the term "micro guide" would include any guide that is equal to or smaller than a 5.0 mm measurement.

I would welcome your wording of a "definition" that would be acceptable. It is clearly intuative that the knot passage issue applies to all rods including micro rods.

The term "micro guide" is a well conceived marketing tool for rod builders who have a desire to increase their market share of rods for very specific markets. The traffic on this forum for the past two years clearly establishes the credibility of this "new" market.

The term "micro guide" is now a permanent word in a rodbuilders vocabulary. The growth and spread of the word is good for buisiness - I received four calls this week - in each case the first question was "Are you the guy that builds those micro rods? I glady respond - Yes I am!

Many may also be surprised to learn that the Japanese who entered the market with "match guides" used the term "micro guide" over 25 years ago for the casting version of the original spinning match guides.

In this case if it looks like a Duck, walks like a Duck and quacks like a Duck it is a MICRO.

Gon Fishn

“I assume that tournament fly casters have pretty much abandoned snake guides in favor of micro guides. Has Lefty come around yet to endorsing micro guides on fly rods?”

As far as I know, (unfortunately) fly casting competitions involve using the same exact identical model of a factory produced rod - so that everyone is on the same level playing field and can practice on the same level playing field.

Conventionally wrapping a double foot snake guide on a flyrod has the advantage in that the mass produced rods will not return to their factories for warranty work BECAUSE a guide was "ripped out". The mass produced models that have single foot guides, occasionally see returns for this very reason. It is not cost effective enough for the factory produced rods to pay their labor the extra time needed to incorporate locking wraps on single foot guides, so WE hold and will likely always hold that advantage over the mass produced offerings.

Torin:

I have to admit to a bit of sarcasm when I stated "I assume that tournament fly casters . . . " I also seem to recall that Lefty prefers snake guides on his fly rods, in some part because of their ability to handle the inevitable kinks and loops in a slack fly line before you can get a fish on the reel. Nevertheless, times change and so does tackle, whether due to improvements or planned obsolesence.

Bill,

I tend to look at guides as guides. The common sense rules for guide sizing are the same now as they were 50 years ago. Nothing has changed.

............

common sense rules

These are not followed if you get to the water and find you can not even string up your rod cause the line and whatever knots on the line do not pass though the guides, leader knots, loop to loop knots.

Bill - willierods.com