Hello,
I was wondering which guide do you think experiences the most friction when the line runs along the guides? This is in reference to an ultra-light spinning rod. Intuitively, I'd say the tip guide would get the most friction, though I could be wrong. If that is the case, would it make sense to use an SiC tip, and lighter guides on the rest of the rod, as the SiC's are much heavier than other materials...with the goal being a lighter ultra-light but still getting the benefit of the SiC material? Or would you skip SiC altogether to make the rod lighter?

Any thoughts would be appreciated,
Ken

The line will be at the greatest angle to the ring at the tiptop. The most pressure will be exerted on the butt guide/s. Both of these scenarios result in more friction than you'll have the other guide locations. But you're not going to groove any of the good ceramics nor will your line suffer unduly if you don't use SIC. The SIC ring is only minimally heavier than similar ceramic rings, however, so if it eases your mind, go ahead and use an SIC tiptop. It's not going to make enough difference for the human hand to be able to tell a difference.

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So I'm using a Rainshadow SP720-4, a nice little 6' 4 piece ultralight blank, and I wanted to use the 4lb test braids (not 4lb diameter braids), which are really thin, because it's easier to cast the very light lures with thinner line. I was hoping to use wire guides, as they are the lightest, and I understand the lighter the rod the better. I have heard of grooving wire guides, and was hoping to avoid that by using the SIC guides where the most friction occurs. If I were to use an SIC tiptop, and an SIC butt guide, do you think that would reduce the likelihood of grooving in the wire guides I'd like to use between them? Would you even recommend mixing different types of guides like I'm thinking of doing? Or is the weight savings I'd get from such a set up not worth the effort? Is it better to just use one type of guide throughout the rod?

Thanks again,
Ken

You can certainly mix guides and the better custom builders do it all the time. If anything is going to groove, it'll be the tiptop first. So to put your mind at ease, go ahead and use a ceramic there. Although, some of the newer hard chrome guides are said to be able to withstand braided line for many, many, many years.

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Ken,
I think that to figure out which guide is taking the most pressure is to run the lnes through the guides, and put maximum load on the rod.
This will simulate a fighting fish.

I completely agree with Tom, in that the line that is making the largest angle to the respective guide will likely have the most wear.

If you look at an untra light, when the tip is fully loaded, there will really be very little force on the rod tip, simply because the tip of an ultra light rod is very soft. i.e. it won't be stiff enough to exert any back pressure on the line.

Rather, go back up the rod toward the butt and find the guide which has the biggest deflection. Typically, this is about 1/3 rd of the way down from the tip. This is where the load of the fish, is going to be somewhat concentrated as it loads the blank. Thus the highest load.

I would imagine that one could put some sort of scale on the line and deflect the line - but then there are going to be issues with the power of the rod, wanting to change the scale reading etc.

Bottom line - any of todays decent guides really won't give you any issues with grooving. With respect to casting, to a very large degree- the guides really aren't part of the equation. The reason for this, is that as the line accelerates out of the reel, and through the guides, the line tends to find the center of the guides and thus flows freely without touching any of the guide, nor tip.

Then, when reeling in the fish, again, as you pump a fish into the boat, there really is very little wear on the guide, because you pump up the fish, drop the rod tip and reel in slack line. Again, very little guide pressure.

Now, you come to the case, where you get a big fast fish, that screams off line against a tight drag, with the rod elevated at 45 degrees. Now, you are getting maximum wear factor on the guide seeing the maximum line angle as the taunt line is screaming out against an angled pole.

Take care
Roger

Hi Ken,

Sounds like good info above. I agree with the top receiving the bulk of the friction. The rest of the guides’ friction might depend on the type of rod made or the style of fishing employed. Larger fish taking drag, larger reels rubbing on the stripper guide, a slightly deflected tip-section loaded while retrieving a lure etc. Once loaded in the case of a fish the rest of the guides will certainly experience friction.

The “pitch”
In my opinion, the best way to approach this is to go all titanium ring guides. (I also get a chance to sell more guides that way) Really though I suggest this because our Titan Ring Lock guides have a solid titanium frame which can reduce weight and add flexibility. They have Nanolite inserts where we have reduced their size eliminating weight but not compromising durability all at a fraction of the cost of SiC. I think they are a great choice,,, and I would go with the NIA / NIRLA / NIRLF models.

Best Regards,

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company

Ken,

If any of the rings will groove, as others have said, it will be the tip-top. There's a reason that St. Coix uses an SiC tip-top when the rest of the guides are alconites on their musky rods. That being said, I really doubt you're going to have any grooving issues when you are throwing lures that small while fighting small fish (I assume you aren't fishing for large fish with the setup you're using). If I were you, I'd use the alconites, but if you are looking to spend more, go with the Am Tack guides or the SiC's. Like Tom said, you won't be able to tell the difference in weight.

jeremy