Right, I knew it wasn't me.

If you've ever watched guys on the party boats holding a rod up, with a fish on, trying to bypass other fishermen, you'll notice that they usually let the reel flip upside down - it's easier to move about that way, far too hard to try and hold the rod upright. But if you've ever seen a guy with a spiral wrapped rod do this, he can relax his grip, hold the rod up and just move along. The rod remains upright. There is so much difference between a spiral wrap and a conventional wrapped guides on top rod, particularly in the realm of saltwater fishing, that I'm surprised we're even having this conversation.

Try your test with something that mimics a real world fishing situation - just tie a 15 lb boat anchor to the line running through all the guides and out the tiptop. Lift it as you would in a fishing situation (no gimbal) and the rod is definitely going to try and spin until the guides face the floor. Use your rod hand just as you would in a real fishing situation, ahead of the reel on the foregrip, but relax your grip and watch what happens.

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Was Josh's question answered in those responses? :-)

Now, other than staring down the blank, Is there an easy way to determine the straightest axis of a rod?

This was covered in a past issue of RodMaker. If you set up a grid on the far end of the blank, off the tip, then support the rod at the butt and about a foot to foot and a half from the butt, you can rotate the rod and note the tip movement against the grid and easily find the straightest axis.

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Tom, uhhhhhhmmm, yeah, I tried it and uhmmmm. Well, that was a very interesting experiment because I had to go to two hands. I used a 30 pound dumbbell instead of the anchor. If the rod started out off balance (guides not up) the guides fell towards the floor as I started to lift and stayed there with some twisting which spiral wraps eliminate. But, when I started with the guides straight up and added pressure on the rod before relaxing my grip, the rod stayed with guides to the sky. Then, I tried it with a trolling rod and got your exact results every time. The rod I was testing with initially was basically an inshore rod with a curado on it. Not very heavy. With the Internat'l 30 in the trolling rod, there was no mercy on making the guides go down. I have to apologize for knocking this thread off topic. I didn't mean to but it happened anyway. Tom, perhaps we can agree to almost disagree (got your same results most of the time anyhow) and you can answer Josh's question, because I'm one of the guys that just stares down the blank while slowly rotating and marking on a piece of tape until I find the straightest axis.

The guides will always attempt to turn towards the direction the load is being applied from. I'm afraid that's just the facts as nature designed them.

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Chia, How bout a video of your test? You Tube is a great means of sharing demonstrations....I think more than a few of us are scratching our heads.

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com

Tom does this mean that a spiral cranking rod used tip down will try to flip up on the retreive?

Believe it or not, I once had a fairly well known rod builder tell me that a spinning rod built on anything other than a particular spine orientation would, when fighting a fish, twist so that the guides spun to the top. He really believed this to be the case.

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I have been following this thread closely. I am also a newby.
What is get outta this is...if we build a rod by using the straight axis
Spine , not spine or both is correct. Geting a spine is not really needed
If a straight axis is found. If both are the same all the more better.
Thanks for a great thread, mikeb

That about sums it up - there is no such thing as an incorrect spine orientation. Thousands and thousands of custom builders and commercial makers all do it differently and they all have rods that work just fine.

And, the only way to make a rod inherently stable, is to put the guides on the bottom of the rod.

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Another thing this thread proved is that it is still possible to have a civilized discussion on the internet without slinging insults at each other. I hope that forum users realize how lucky they are to have this resource with people willing to make these sorts of patient discussions. I am grateful that Tom didn't lose patience and turn me into egg foo young on the subject and that he saw right through what I was saying and allowed the discussion to flourish. My personal hope is that other builders would read this thread and be inspired to try to see every topic (even ones we know are rock solid) from new and different angles with a burgeoning curiosity to advance our craft. And, yes, the only way to make a rod stable under pressure is to put the guides on the bottom of the rod. :) Cheers to all.