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Guide manufacturers? Are they missing something?
Posted by: Owen Zimmerman (---.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
Date: February 11, 2010 06:15PM

It seems to me ( I may be wrong) that there is a hole in the market for high frame, small ringed guides for surf spinning rods. Braid allows for smaller ring size in gathering guides, however there is still a need for height. I hope at some point one of the companies makes a variety of guide ring/frame options in actual high frame guides. Something like a 25 ring that is equivalent in height to a Fuji HVSG 30h or svsg/mnag 40. I want to reduce my guide sizes, but if I even remotely follow guidelines similar to the ngc, for many of the reels I build for there isn't a guide out there to use as a gatherer in a 25 ring that falls withing 30 inches of the reel spool, let alone 28 or 26". In fact, the only one I have found that is compatible is the fuji hvsg in a 30h, which I believe is limited to a gunsmoke stainless frame or black w/a22waaaaaaazazZASZZ
hardaloy. I know some builders use a 20 or 25 or 20 and pushed it out to 40+ inches. I have tried it and am not happy with it out that far. Will we see some real high frames soon with the new direction in building spinning rods for braid?

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Re: Guide manufacturers? Are they missing something?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 11, 2010 06:20PM

I hope so. There is one alternative, however, and it will be revealed in a forthcoming edition of RodMaker.

In the meantime, builders should write and email companies with their desires. That's how companies learn what offerings they should consider bringing to market.

................

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Re: Guide manufacturers? Are they missing something?
Posted by: Bill Stevens (---.br.br.cox.net)
Date: February 11, 2010 08:52PM

Owen if you are going to the ICRBE stop by the Swampland booth. They already exist - I have prototypes - all builders have to do is market the need in quantity to the manufacturers and they will deliver! I even have some on two rods that will be on display in booth and in action in the parking lot!

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Re: Guide manufacturers? Are they missing something?
Posted by: Owen Zimmerman (---.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
Date: February 11, 2010 10:19PM

I wish I could make it Bill, but not this year. If only it happened a week earlier... when I have vacation. I figured I am no the only one who feels the need for that type of guide, so maybe it is just getting the word out.

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Re: Guide manufacturers? Are they missing something?
Posted by: bill boettcher (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: February 12, 2010 05:20AM

Owen
I guess the only one that seems to fit the bill is the Fuji HVSG surf guides ?

Bill - willierods.com

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Re: Guide manufacturers? Are they missing something?
Posted by: Tony Politi (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: February 12, 2010 08:06AM

Bill, I will definitely stop by the booth to check them out.

Tony

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Re: Guide manufacturers? Are they missing something?
Posted by: Owen Zimmerman (64.251.52.---)
Date: February 12, 2010 09:20AM

I guess the only one that seems to fit the bill is the Fuji HVSG surf guides ?



They are the closest, but I would like more choices of frame color/ring material and maybe even have a 20 or 25 ring that is similar in height to the 30H. I guess if I were designing a guide, I would probably go toward something like a Fuji kwag available in very tall heights w/ small rings, and in titanium or black and chrome stainless to keep the price point more accesible.

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Re: Guide manufacturers? Are they missing something?
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: February 12, 2010 10:13AM

Owen,
On the samve vein, I wish the guide manufacturers would do the same thing for micro guides.
I love the idea of the smaller guides for conventional bait casting reels.
However, I am not crazy about the fact - that if I need to build the conventional with enough micro guides to keep the line off the rod (as requested by many of my clients) I have to go to an excessive number of guides.

I would certainly like to build a rod with 7 oir 8 guides rather than 14 or so guides that are now required with micros in a conventional casting rod configuration.

Sure, the taller micros would be a bit heavier. But an added 7 micros, the wraps and finish are heavier as well.

Take care
Roger

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Re: Guide manufacturers? Are they missing something?
Posted by: Scott Sheets (---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: February 12, 2010 01:08PM

Roger,
Not to get off topic, but you shouldnt need 14 guides for a conventional setup. I would recommend searching Alex Z's or Bobby Feazels posts about this...good info out there.

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com

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Re: Guide manufacturers? Are they missing something?
Posted by: Chuck Mills (---.grenergy.com)
Date: February 12, 2010 02:46PM

Roger, they make 4mm M guides that would get you over 1/2" off the blank. Probably too far.

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Re: Guide manufacturers? Are they missing something?
Posted by: John Martines (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: February 12, 2010 07:00PM

I agree with the small and tall surf guides. But something that already exsist is what I want. Titanuim HVSG!! Only made for Japan!!

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Re: Guide manufacturers? Are they missing something?
Posted by: Steve Gardner (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: February 13, 2010 01:46AM

Owen;
If you were to design guides; the first thing you would need is about $100,000.00 spare change lying around to pay for the research, development, design, and construction of the new dies it takes to cut them out with.
This is the number one reason why there first needs be a large enough demand for a new guide design to justify the expense of making new cutting dies.

Think about this. After about 18 months of personally pushing the micro market.
Bill Batson shared that they had sold about 12,000 micro guides. [rodbuilding.org]
At present an average of about 670 per month @ less then a dollar a piece (At retail). Now if you figure that at the OEM level they sell for at least 1/2 that much or less.
Then minus out the expense of production, shipping, handling, Advertising selling, ECT, and how long before the market is large enough to just recoup your expenses. With that in mind, would YOU really want to invest in the expense of making guides?

Every one of the manufacturers is presently working to develop improved designs, because the Market is just now getting large enough to justify doing so.

Because a few hundred custom builders think there should be other designs available, with out understanding the cost of the undertaking has companies like Batson, Fuji, AMT and Pac Bay thinking.
“Are they missing something?"

Roger;
Your desire for taller micro's to use as your running guides would create a night mayor that I don't think you are prepared to handle, unless that is you don't mind rebuilding your clients rods every time you turn around.
You should follow Scott’s advice. Unless you're building 9, 10, or 11 foot rods. There is no need to have that many guides on a micro rod.

John;
“Titanium HVSG!! Only made for Japan!!”
If you want them in the US create a demand!
At one time Micro guides were available only in Japan. I wanted them readily available here. So I built the market.

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Re: Guide manufacturers? Are they missing something?
Posted by: Mike Barkley (---.nap.wideopenwest.com)
Date: February 13, 2010 02:50AM

Great response, Steve!! There is a LOT more to getting a product to market than the fact that custom rod builders want them

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

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Re: Guide manufacturers? Are they missing something?
Posted by: bill boettcher (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: February 13, 2010 08:40AM

MudHole has the HVSG listed in there catalog ??

Bill - willierods.com

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Re: Guide manufacturers? Are they missing something?
Posted by: Owen Zimmerman (---.hrbgpa.east.verizon.net)
Date: February 14, 2010 07:40PM

Steve Gardner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With that in mind, would YOU
> really want to invest in the expense of making
> guides?
>

no... but if I owned or designed for Fuji, I would make taller guides for surf rods :) With the wide variety of products they have availabe, making a series of guides a few millimeters taller isn't likely going to put them under.

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