Hi Guys,

I am trying to epoxy a rod blank directly to a Texalium Tennessee Handle Tube. I am having a problem getting
the epoxy to bond to inside of the Texalium tube. I cleaned the inside of the tube with Alcohol and sanded it some
with 400 grit stand paper. However, the bond turned completely loose. I have a blank with a very nice epoxy blob but
it is not stuck to the Texalium... I had to cut the epoxy off the rod blank but I have a perfectly smooth surface where it tried
to bond to the handle.

Any one else had this problem?

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Mikew

What epoxy are you using?

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

What is the fit like between the handle and blank? Is this a very large diameter blank that fits the handle or are you trying to offset the handle and it is only glued to one side of the blank?

Yes, several have had the same problem. Steve Gardner just finished up a piece for RodMaker and mentioned this same thing. There is a surface coating on the tubing that you'll have to deal with.

I haven't used it so I'm not really qualified to tell you what the problem is or how to deal with it, but you aren't the first person to run into this situation.

............

Hmmm good info I am about to build a rod with one of these handles. It sounds as though it is some sort of release agent from the manufacturing process perhaps.

Phil,

I didn't have any problems with the 2 times I've used the tubing by Batson. Don't know if I was just lucky or this problem is only with the Texilium tubing though.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

I've used that texalium tubing in 10"-12" sections for slick butts on live bait rods. I took a piece of 1/4" delrin stock (dowel rod would work) about 12" long and cut a slit in one end to hold a small folded piece of 60-grit sandpaper. Cut the slit in delrin or dowel deep enough to get the sandpaper in and wrap a rubber band around the very tip to secure. Chuck it up in a power drill and really rough up the inside of the tube. I attach Flex Coat arbors to the blank, let epoxy set, then glue the tubing to the arbors. So far I've had good results. Hope this helps.

The Texilium that comes from Lamaglas has an aluminum powder coating that is resistant to adhesion to other chemicals such as epoxy.

On the tubing that they color, they treat the powder coating with an etching chemical that enables the coloring to stick. Without that treatment the coloring will not adhere to the powder coating and flakes off.
Now I do not know if the powder coating is on the out side only, or if the tubing is dipped in a chemical bath that would coat inside as well as.

I also don’t know if the Tex. that Batson sells has the same coating.

Steve,
I use the flex coat poly arbors to match the inside diameter of the Texaluminum handle to the outside of the poly arbors.
I sand the arbors first to give a perfect fit to the inside of the handle.
Then, I ream the arbor to give a perfect fit to the blank.

I really do nothing to the blank or the tube. I just give both the blank and the outside of the poly arbors a good coating of slow drying epoxy, let it sit up and I have never had a failure.

If it makes a difference, all of the handles that I use for this purpose are colored. But really no issues at all with adhesion.

Take care
Roger

I would think a cork reamer on the inside of the tube would clean it up so you would have adhesion.

Bill - willierods.com

Roger;
If you read mike’s post, he is trying to epoxy blank directly to Tex. he is not using arbors.

The only reason I even know about the etching is that 3 years back I purchased some Tex. and when I put masking tape on it prevent splintering while cutting to size. Then pulled the tape off, it pulled the finish off with it. From that point I could take my fingernail and scrape the rest off.

Called the factory and talked with Todd Vivian who explained the makeup of the tubing and coloring process, and that some of the tubing had been painted and shipped out accidentally skipping the etching process, and he gladly replaced what I had.

Hi Guys,

I used Threadmaster Ultimate Epoxy gel to attach the rod blank to the Texalium tube..

The joint between the tube and the rod blank is very smooth and covers about 30% of the blank surface. It is not a very large diameter blank
and the glue is only on one side covering about 30% of the total surface of the rob blank at the but.

I do think there is some sort of release agent inside of the tube. I cleaned it with Alcohol but that was not sufficient.

I am not using an arbor, so all of the flex and strain in applied directly to the epoxy joint between the rod blank and the handle.

Steve,
Do you have any ideas on how to get the epoxy to stick to the tube?

Mikew

Mike;
It is not a release agent, but the aluminum powder coating that is preventing you from achieving your goal

Couple of questions;
Do you want to leave the tubing open like the hot handled rod?
Is the only support during use going be from the glue joint?
Or are you gluing prior to putting arbors in?

Hi Steve,

I would like to leave the tubing open like the hot handled rod. I live in Texas and we do fish in the
winter time especially the lakes that are heated by power plants.

Yes, The only support is the glue joint. No arbors... I think the rod will be more sensitive with the rod glued directly to the tube.
I might use some kid of but cap to protect the but end of the rod.

You are saying that the chemical is embedded in the Texalium Tube and can not be removed?

What kind of tube did you use for your rods?

Thanks,
Mikew

Mike,
I read and understand your post. The poly arbors from Flex coat and others do an excellent job in transferring blank vibrations to the handle.
Although I understand your desire, I think you will end up with a rod that is just as sensitive and it will be much stronger if you use an arbor, so that all of the handle surface is glued to the handle, and the arbors to the blank.

If you don't want to use an arbor, then it will be to your advantage to roughen up the interior of the aluminum tube. You need to do more than just clean it with chemicals.
You need to physically abrade the surface. If you have a long cylindrical rod, you can chuck this into a drill and use it to roughen the inside of the handle. You can also use a small carbide grinder bit, chuck it into a 1/4 inch bit extension, and chuck the extension into a drill. Since the inside of the handle is nearly an inch, you can find several different abrasive tools on the market that will fit nicely into the handle to roughen the surface.

Good luck
Roger

Roger;
Mike wants the ability to place hand warmers inside the tubing when it is cold. This can not be done if he glues arbors inside the tubing



Mike;
Texilium is made much in the same way blanks are made. It is a fiberglass cloth embedded with resin baked, and then has the power coating applied. While it may not be “embedded” throughout the cloths structure, it is thoroughly intermingled in the texture of the cloth that to get rid of it completely may cause other problems.

Even if you could simply epoxy it to the tubing I don’t think it will hold up over the long run. Eventually the joint would begin to fail as there is no real structural strength in epoxy by itself. And mostly likely happen while you’re fighting a trophy.
Epoxy’s strength is in gluing structurally stronger materials together.

So here are some suggestions
First suggestion;
Ditch the idea of using Tex. altogether for this project!
But if you are committed to using it.
I would abrade the inside surface at the front and back couple of inches with some 120 grit sand paper, stick blank inside.
Stick something in the back end of blank to protrude past tubing a couple of inches (pencil, piece of scrap blank ECT.)
Take strong ¼” wide or so rubber band and slide down blank to front edge of tubing, twist around itself several times, stretch over tubing to back end loop over piece sticking out of blank. (This will help to hold things in place while you are working.)

Get your hands on some fiberglass cloth (auto parts store or body shop) cut in
1-1/2 X 4 inch wide strips.
Mix some epoxy (NOT FAST CURE) will need some working time and apply to inside of tubing aproxamently from ¼ inch in to about 2 inches deep. Do only one end at a time.

Take cloth being careful to not let it unweave and wrap around anything that is about ¼’ in diameter. (Pencils will work great are cheap and can be thrown away afterwards.)

While holding fiberglass in place with your finger insert into tube with starting edge against intersection of tube and blank. Unroll around tubing keeping some pressure against inside surface of tube.
Use some type of small spatula or what works for you and work the fiberglass into the epoxy. (May require adding more epoxy)
What you are essentially creating is a hollow arbor to hold the blank in place. This can be a tedious process so take your time. Allow to cure for a little while, but not too long then go back and tuck down any edges that are sticking up.

Suggestion two;
Ditch the idea of using Tex. altogether for this project!
In the past I used graphite tubing, making sure to buy it without a fiberglass under layer scrim

But for the last couple years and the only way I do it anymore;
Get your hands on some graphite cloth and make your own tubing following the procedures out lined outlined RodMaker mag.
The exception being to use two layers one above the blank and one below essentially sandwiching the blank between them.
The other advantage to this method is that you can make the handle with a little larger diameter allowing more space for the hand warmers to be pushed up inside.

Steve,
If the only reason to have a hollow handle is for warm hands, a better idea is to use cork for the grip so that no heat or cold is conducted to the hands. Texaluminum - without any inside heat is a very very cold material.

Then, simply have a pouch on the front of your jacket in which you have a hand warmer or two and use it to keep your hands warm.

If you happen to fish from a boat, and if the motor happens to be a tiller, run the water from the Pee hole from the motor into a box along side the motor. This will give a nice source of warm water to warm your hands from time to time and to also rinse off your hands after handling a fish.

Bottom line - there are a lot better methods to keep your hands warm rather than putting a warming tool inside the grip of the rod.

Now, if you do want to do this in an elegant way, and if you have a source of electric power, it is very simple to put a heating element, as one would use in the grip of a snow mobile inside the handle of the texaluminum handle.
Simply glue it in place - wrapped in fiberglass insulation - as you build the rod. Leave a connector on the end to plug in the battery and you will be good to go.

Take care
Roger

Hi Roger,

I think I would like to have a hollow tube for inserting hand warmers... so the arbors will not work.

Thanks for your ideas and response.

Mikew

Hi Steve,

I have glued the Tex. handle twice and since it looks like it will not work without the arbor or a lot of extra work I am willing to try something else.

I have constructed some of the handles using the foam core and fiberglass/graphite cloth. So, you are using the graphite cloth and making your own tubes?

Is there anywhere you can purchase a graphite tubes that the epoxy will stick to?

Thanks for all the inputs...
Mikew

p.s.
Another solution for winter fishing which works very well is to make a muff for the rod and reel.
Leave the front of the muff open to allow the line to exit the muff. Place a couple of hand warmers on the inside of the pockets in the muff and then, simply insert the rod that you want to fish with in the winter - on the inside of the muff with your bare hands, and your hands will be warm and toasty.

Over the years, I have made a few different muffs for different winter activities. I use 1/4 to 3/8th inch thick foam. I enclose the foam in nylon material, and then sew the pockets together to form a muff. Before assembling the muff, I sew hand warmer pockets into the muff. Leave nice large arm holes for the hands for easy entrance and exit from the muff - as well as an appropriate sized hole in the front of the muff for the rod and line to exit the muff.

Power up the hand warmers - either electric, or other - lighter fluid, etc. and go fishing in comfort.

Take care
Roger

p.s.
This muff then allows the use of ANY rod without modification to fish in severe weather with 0 loss in feel and with no cold in the hands.

p.p.s.
If you are fishing in the winter with bare hands, the use of hand warmers in the rod blank really don't take care of the cold issue. The back of the hands are exposed, plus your reeling hand s also exposed and not warmed by the handle, if the handle is warm.

That is why the rod muff is a better solution to being comfortable in the cold and wind of severe weather fishing.

Take care
Roger