This may be a stupid question,but here goes.Where should a rod be balanced at?is it the center of the reel or at the foregrip?I would think it is at the reel,but I want to know from the experts.Thanks

This has been discussed many times. I think if you will do a search on the subject. You will find many posts of differing opinions, including those who are against it.

If you want to balance a rod at all, you need to do so in such a way that it balances at whatever point is appropriate for the specific use of the rod. What you find to be an acceptable balance point for one type rod may not be acceptable for another or different type rod.

...............

Frank this is really a complex question - a few questions - in your case a little information would be helpful.

1. Fish species and general description of rod and technique when you consider that balancing would be helpful.

2. Do you fish with a rod only? Or is there a reel and lure used?

3. How much of the items in 2 should be in place when you balance?

4. How long can the rear grip be to allow for body and clothing clearance allowing freedom of movement of the rod for fish control.

5. How long can you fish with the unbalanced rod before fatigue makes you lay the thing down.

6...What is the reason for balance? Angler fatigue - Bite Detection

Frank,
Very simply put, a rod should be balanced to make the rod do its best job for the type fishing and the fisherman using the rod.
This means that you need to consider the type fishing your are doing, the fish species you are targeting, the style fishing you are doing.
If you are familiar with all of the afore mentioned items, put the reel on the rod that you want to use while fishing, hold the rod where you want your hand to be while you fish, and then add balance as needed to achieve the rod angle that you want when you fish.

Take care
Roger

The fish don't know or care if you're rod is balanced. Adding 1 oz to the butt will not matter if it a bass, tarpon or redfish. Second, you should include at least the reel when balancing. The concern should be the technique and how the angler holds the rod. Differences in those two give you different answers about how and where to balance a rod if that is your choice.

I do a lot of bass fishing. As well as crappie and panfish. I like to put the reel on the rod, the balance point is where I hold the rod with the reel on it. On the baitcasters, it is where I "palm" the reel. On a spinning reel, I use a split grip, with the reel foot brace support between 2 fingers. For almost all my fishing, For some applications, I like to balance horizontally. Crankbaits, spinnerbaits, or other casting type presentations. I do a lot of flippin to heavy timber. In this case, I like more weight in the handle end. This tends to rock the tip up a bit - to the 10:00 position or so. This is where I like to hold my rod when fishing the cover. Some may want it different. This is what Bill was asking about, I think. He has some really nice
This is what a big part of the custom rod building thing is about. I am fairly new to this, but these are some of the reasons I build my own.

Kyle Robinson

Every time you put a lure or a bait with a different weight or action (resistance) on your line the working balance of your rod will change. You could go back to good old sliding rings on a straight-tube grip, which would allow you to balance your rod by changing the position of your reel every time you change lures or bait. Or you could spring for $139.99 (+ postage) for a Ross reel seat extender, which would allow you to move your reel to re-balance your rod every time you change lures or bait. Check first to see if the Ross device will fit the reel seat of the reel you intend to use.

Phil,
Actually, the only thing that really matters is the balance of the rod on a slack line.
This is where balance really kicks in - i.e. feeling for those line twitches when the bait is motionless in the water or on the bottom of the lake.

Balance the rod with no weight on the rod. You will be good to go.

Take care
Roger

Roger,
Actually with a slack line you will "feel" nothing. How well any vibration is transmitted up a line is a function of the mechanical impedance of the line (mass density and elasticity of the line) and the tension on the line. The higher the tension on the line the better it will transmit vibrations or the less tension on the line the poorer it will transmit vibrations. A slack line will not transmit vibrations up the line at all.

I like to balance steelhead bait drifting rods at the reel. 8-10 hours of casting and drifting bait while holding the rod on a more or less level plane waiting for a grab can cause fatigue. I dont like the way a drift rod feels if I have to work to hold the tip up while fishing it. I notice less fatigue with the rods that I balanced. Of course that is an unscientific opinion and could all be in my head!

Goofy double post.

Sorry



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2010 01:18AM by Ron Asker.

Emory Harry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Roger,
> Actually with a slack line you will "feel"
> nothing. How well any vibration is transmitted up
> a line is a function of the mechanical impedance
> of the line (mass density and elasticity of the
> line) and the tension on the line. The higher the
> tension on the line the better it will transmit
> vibrations or the less tension on the line the
> poorer it will transmit vibrations. A slack line
> will not transmit vibrations up the line at all.

Actually you will feel the bite on a slack, actually semi-slack line. In bass fishing with plastic baits if you have a tight line and a fish picks it up as often as not it spits it out before you can set the hook - hence the need for fishing on a semi-slack line. We are not feeling for "vibrations" just the subtle "tap" of a fish inhaling the bait. Oft times it will be nothing more than seeing the line hop ever so slightly. Sometimes you see it... sometimes you feel it and sometimes both. But fishing braided line I assure you that "feeling something" on a semi-slack line is a regular occurance and is the rule rather than the exception. All that said with a balanced rod/reel it is far easier to detect those subtle taps. Even if the balance is not optimized to all the degrees listed in this post it is still better to be close to balanced than trying to finess a tip heavy combination. I suspect a debate could be created over wheather a "tap" is a vibration or not but the fact of the matter is it is actually line movement(travel) that is detected - very subtle line movement. Tip down crankbait, swimbait, topwater and spinner bait fishing where you always have resistance of the moving bait probably has no real benefit relative to a balanced rod/reel with angler fatigue being a non-issue simply because balanced or not casting/retriving will always create a tip heavy effect.

IMHO... balanced is just that - balanced. Tip-to-butt is netural. Anything other than that is counter-balanced. Or if you will... and if there is such terminology positive/negative balance which seems a contridiction of terms. The governing factor, of course, is the balance point.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2010 06:30AM by Doug Weissinger.

Mr. Weissinger
Well stated and absolutely correct!
While it is much more difficult to feel on a heavier tipped rod, on a well built balanced rod you can detect that tap.
Even on a semi slack and sometimes slack line.

I know there are those who don't bass fish that will disagree with that statement.
I'd also be willing to bet that if you polled every builder on this site that bass fishes. You’d get an overwhelming positive response stating they too can feel that tap.

Doug,
When I use the word vibration, for lack of a more descriptive term, I mean any change in the tension on the line, a supple tap, a jerk even a reduction in the tension on the line.
I have no doubt that you are correct about what you SEE with a slack line. And I have no reason to doubt that you are correct about Bass fishing technique. But I can guarantee you that the more tension on a line the better it will transmit any energy input at the end of the line or any vibration. The lower the tension on the line the more that any energy input or vibration will be attenuated.
As far as balancing a rod is concerned, you may feel at the end of the day of fishing that you are less tired if you are using a rod that you have added weight to in order balance it. However, any weight (mass) that is added will guaranteed reduce the sensitivity of the rod or what you can feel.

While flylining bait and bottom fishing in the Sea of Cortez I have had the dubious honor of being badly out-fished by Mexican guides using handlines. I'll bet a lot of you have shared this embarrassment. I frequently offered them the use of my spare outfit, but they declined and explained they could detect bites and set hooks better by hand The presence or lack of balance in our tackle did not influence my success or that of the handliners. Fishing for freshwater black bass has become a highly specialized and commercialized undertaking, but the parameters for efficiently detecting a "bite" don't vary much between largemouth bass and pargo lisa, or between fishing for fame and prize money versus fishing for supper. It seems to be difficult to take this rod balacing thing seriously for the majority of fishing situations.

Emory,
I totally read and completely understand and agree with your argument about the fact that a tight line and or other factors transmit vibration better and that one actually feels the vibration better with the tight line.

Having said that - many many many fish are caught on lines that are not tight or not even semi tight.

I think that the argument about balance is more than just about feeling vibration, or feeling the bite.

Much of the balance argument as evidenced by some of the posts about is the ability to have a rod - lay lightly in the fishermans hand with virtually no pressure required by the fisherman to hold the grip of the rod.

Many times the fish are caught by the "sight" of the line movement, by the visual change of a line change, by the observation that the line gets tighter etc.

Thus, the argument for a balanced rod. Not - for the sake of "feeling the vibration - or SENSITIVITY - from a tactile feel, but more for the ability to have the rod to lay lightly on the fishermans hand with no hand pressure required, and the ability of the fisherman to concentrate all of his senses on the line, and its entrance into the water, as well as any indication of line change - whether it is visual or some other cue to allow the fisherman to set the hook.

Furtermore, I do agre that the overall weight of a rod (i.e. making it as light as possible) is significant with respect to minimizing anglers fatigue.


Fatigue is one of the biggest overlooked items when it comes to missed bites on a day of hard fishing. It is easy to catch fish first thing in the morning, but harder to sense those light bites late in the day, if you have been clenching an unbalanced rod all day. The clenching of the rod, which is necessary if the tip of the rod is unusually heavy. The holding of a very well balanced rod, which has allowed the fisherman to simply let the rod lay in his hand through the course of a long day goes a long way toward minimizing hand fatigue,and its ensuring loss of feel by the fisherman.

Summary:
In agreement with Emory - yes - it is virtually impossible to feel a vibration on a slack line because you don't have a means to get the vibrations from the bait to the handle of the rod.
But, slack or semi slack lines catch many many fish every year. Whether it is feel, lack of fatigue, the ability to allow the rod to lay horizontal with very little hand pressure really aids in the persons ability to catch fish.
The use of balancing techniques to achieve this ability to have the rod lay horizontal with very little hand pressure really aids in the ability of a fisherman to maximize his ability to use slack or semi slack line fishing techniques for boating more fish.

Take care
Roger

Roger,
There is much of what you say about Bass fishing technique that I would not argue with. But the tension on a line being one variable that determines how well the line transmits vibration or transmits input energy is not my opinion it is physics. The same is true for added weight reducing sensitivity or feel.

Here is what I know about that.... I have a 7' spinning rig that I use for finess fishing a 4" plastic worm and max. 1/16oz. weight and at times 1/32oz weight. It is weighted for balance. I tried fishing it one time without the counter weight. It felt heavier and very awkward. Sensitivity was reduced. This weight is in the butt how, exactly, would that impact sensitivity of the rod from the reel forward? There is no dampening effect created by a weight in the butt - well maybe if a freight train hit it. The added effort to maintain rod position lessened my ability to detect a strike! Bull you say??? OK... take someones pulse by feeling for it in their wrist. First clamp your hand tightly around their wrist... do you feel a pulse???? Now try gently placing a finger over the vein... now do you feel a pulse? Finess bass fishing is little different than the analogy I just provided.

There are more variables at work than simple line tension and static weight of a rod and in some forms of bass fishing a balanced rig trumps line tension and weight(within reason), in regards to sensitivity, every time! When I'm jiggin' and finessin' I'll take balanced over "light" everytime! But that's just me.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2010 05:09PM by Doug Weissinger.

Doug,

If you were to measure, by mechanical means, sensitivity in terms of vibration through the rod, you'd find that even adding the weight at the butt will reduce sensitivity.

In your case with the weight removed from the butt, it wasn't that the rod's sensitivity was reduced - it was most likely because it put the rod in a position that was not where it needed to be in order to detect a strike for that specific technique, or the fact that your physical senses fatigued more quickly and thus you were not able to feel what you had been feeling when the rod was better balanced (for you and your technique). I believe this is what you're describing.

I've said many times that folks have to be careful when they discuss sensitivity because we're not always all talking about the same thing. There are times when adding weight for balance can indeed increase the fisherman's ability to detect a strike, but it's not because that added weight made the rod more sensitive.

.................