Alex D. brought a good point into a thread below. With some of the "new", or maybe overpriced rods that are now on the market. Warrenties are a huge factor in the customer buying good quality custom rods. A lot has been written here about that, but I had a couple thoughts to share...

A lot of threads on here and other places seem to deal with the fact that prices go up, margins get slimmer, and the custom builder finds it harder to compete. Do we expect our suppliers to cover a broken rod because the customers dumb lid danced on it? Not all, but some do. This all adds to the increased costs. Shimano and some other larger companies may be able to do that, but the smaller ones cannot. And we do not want to add to these rising costs by taking advantage of our suppliers, or let our customers do it to us to the extreme.

The warrenty issue is a factor each builder has to find a way to deal with. Just for general terms, if a builder uses a $70 blank, the other goodies may be $40, or $50. So at $120 range, plus labor. If you buy, build, and sell a few, say for $225.00; a person has to decide on the warrenty issue.. Some customers will buy for that reason, for sure. Those same customers may buy 4 or 5. So we should take care of them.

In Tom's last rod magazine, he covered a lot of rod breaking issues. Maybe we do a limited warremty. If you are stupid, step on 3 rods, do we replace? I am just asking.... If you have a Customer who buys a lot, then yes. Up to you. But for how long? Another question... and something to think about.

A lot of us buy extra blanks, maybe tuck them away. Good warrenty blanks, maybe. I know a few people that are too tough on rods. 1 breaks 1 or 2 a year, takes them in and swaps at BPS. Yes, they are Shimanos. This person broke one of mine, a G. Loomis 783, by hi-sticking about a 5 lb bass. Then lifted it, dead weight flopping into the boat. Stupid. We will replace it, as they are on our lure Co staff. But if it was someone else, maybe not. We are always replacing tip-tops on rods for people, as i am sure a lot of you do. 3 or 4 inches get broken off the tip, jamming them into a rod locker, or getting stepped on on the front end of a bass boat. Hard for us to be liable for a stepped on rod! But a lot of builders do it. My son works at Dicks. A friend has broken 4 rods, all the same. Dicks replaced. He wants one of mine. I said no. He doesn't know how to fish with them, does not know how to take care of them. I told him to keep going to Dicks. This is am extreme, but I am sure a lot of you know these types. Sometimes it is better to loose a sale, than to keep throwing good money after bad.

I wonder if we should maybe replace for a replacement fee. Maybe $100.00, or $50.00. Unless it breaks in the first few weeks, or something. I do not know if the $$ is correct, but used this as an example.

It is easier to compete with $100 rods than $400. As times change, we maybe need to look for some other options. Please share your ideas. This issue will not go away! And I do not see it getting any easier for us.

Food for thought...

Kyle Robinson

Kyle,
I work with my customers to explain the causes of breakage.
I also tell them that it is pretty easy for me to see how a rod has been broken.
I also tell them that if the rod breaks due to a manufacturing defect, I will repalce it.

If, the rod breaks because of a customer problem - like stepping on it - I will repair it - but NOT replace it.

I have had several rods back and the client told me how it had been their mistake and I repaired it at no charge. Normally repairs only take me about 15 to 30 minutes, so it is a reasonable thing to do.

-
I did have one person who wanted a new rod for one of his mistakes. We made an agreement on the price, but it was near the new price. At the same time, I also repaired the old one and gave it back to him at the same time for a spare.

Generally speaking, there are very few places where a rod breaks that can't be repaired.

---
By the way - for the folks that simply put a new tip on a rod, that has had several inches broken off the rod, they are generally doing quite a disservice to the client. On so many fast or extra fast tipped rods, the top several inches are the most important three inches of the rod. If those inches are taken off the rod, the entire action of the rod is changed.

Rather than simply putting a new tip on a shorter rod, it is much better to take off a few more inches and add back a tip of the appropriate action onto the rod along with a new tip.

Take care
Roger

The rod that Shimanno is selling for $400.00 will cost them as a manufacturer less than $100.00 (probably less than $50) to make. I'm not sure what the mark up to the big box stores will be, but would assume a 20 to 40 percent mark up. At 40 percent Shimanno wholesale price would be around $240.00; at the very least they have $140 to work with to take care of the warranties and marketing. We need to follow suite instead of making $20-$30 per rod we need to take warranties into account when we price a rod. The $225 example above with labor of $60.00 you would make $45.00 on the rod, there is no way that you can afford to warranty a rod with a $45.00 profit. The custom rod should have been closer to $325.00 to $350.00 to give you room to warranty the rod when it brakes. We as builders are selling ourselves to cheaply and then complain when a customer brakes a blank, we should be packing the warranties into the price of the build and that will cost more than $45.00 in profit.

I can tell you that BassPro would not honor an "over the counter warranty" on an obvious mfg defect on a G Loomis Bronze Back rod without a receipt. The first guide below the tip pulled out and was lost when removing the rod from the rod sock. BassPro told me to send it to Shimano.

This over the counter warranty issue was discussed recently on BassBoatCentral.com concerning Shimano Crucials.

Shimano used to sell their Crucial rods with an "over the counter warranty" but they are now listed on their website as being a "lifetime warranty." Some stores still honor the "over the counter warranty" but many retailers, including some of the big box stores, would not. So the "over the counter warranty" isn't necessarily as valuable as it's marketed to be, and is something you may want to communicate to customers that bring this up.

Dan

Most commercially made rods are "keystoned." A rod that a sporting goods dealer sells for $400 cost him about $200 to $250 to purchase. The margin on the latest crop of expensive bass rods and reels is quite good.

However, there is very little fair trade pricing in the general fishing industry except on such selected items. I can remember buying Penn International Reels back in the 1990's. A 50TW cost me about $475, retailed for $700 and to be competitive I had to sell it for no more than $495.

..............

I am considering offering an optional warranty with my builds. That warranty would cover what the manufacturer's warranty on the component(s) does not: the CRAFTSMANSHIP required to turn a collection of assorted parts into a finished, custom made, professional grade fishing instrument.

Imagine the manufacturer of a heart valve offering a 20 year warranty against manufacturing defects. A year after "installation," the valve begins to malfunction and needs to be replaced. The patient is not happy about the defective valve, but (s)he IS happy about the free replacement. Happy, that is, until the bill for labor (CRAFTSMANSHIP) and the hospital stay arrives.

The $1,000 valve was replaced free by the manufacturer. The surgeon charged $120,000 for CRAFTSMANSHIP and the hospital tacked on an additional $99.000 for incidentals like the operating room, the Cardiac Intensive Care unit, Med surg-room, nursing staff, medication, rehab services, etc. Your warrantied charge: $1,000. Not covered by warranty: $199,000. All of a sudden that $1,000 valve warranty is seen for what it really is: almost worthless.

Picture this scenario: You walk into my shop, and we discuss your needs for a rod. I lay out all the components I will be using ( blank, titanium guides, cork, thread, epoxy, reel seat, arbors, color preserver, finish, perhaps feathers or snakeskin, exotic wood for butt caps (or reel seats), winding check ...and tell you the following: "The rod blank comes with a manufacturer's lifetime warranty against manufacturing defects. That does NOT cover abuse, accidents, "wear and tear," etc. The guides carry a lifetime warranty, covering the same issues. There are no other warranties associated with the components. Your price for these parts, sir will be $164.25. which is what I pay for them at wholesale, plus 20%. If you would like to buy these parts, take them with you, and build your rod yourself, this is what your cost will be, plus tax.

If you would like me to craft these components into a finished, ready to fish rod, the cost is $299.95 plus tax. I warranty the quality of my CRAFTSMANSHIP the same way the manufacturer warranties the covered components: if some part of my craftsmanship fails (a reel-seat loosens, a guide pulls out of a wrap), I will repair the problem at no charge.

If a component warrantied my the manufacturer fails due to a defect and needs to be replaced, I will charge for the CRAFTSMANSHIP involved in carrying out the repair. These charges could range from probably free for a guide re-wrap on a rod I built for you, to (insert your price here) if I need to craft another rod for you because a blank failed due to a manufacturer's defect. This means you WILL pay for a new reel seat, new cork (the cork cannot be saved, and the reel seat will likely cost less to replace than salvage), removal of the old guides, all new wraps, new finish, etc.

OR: You can simply take the warrantied component, i.e a blank, and do the work yourself or have someone else do it for you. Again: not much of a warranty.

If you break the rod due to something YOU did, I will repair it for you at the cost of the new parts required, plus my normal charge for CRAFTSMANSHIP.

This is the only way I can offer you all my talent, skill and time, translated into a fishing rod built exactly to your specifications, at a price you would find reasonable.

However, if you choose, you can purchase this rod for $349.95 plus tax, and if a warrantied component fails within the manufacturer's warranty period due to manufacturer's defect, I will provide the craftsmanship and any additional components necessary to repair your rod at no cost to you. This does NOT apply to a rod that has failed due to misuse or abuse.

Think of it as the extended warranty you are offered when you buy a wide-screen television. That warranty covers you for an additional one or two years. THIS warranty covers you for the length of the component manufacturer's warranty. In the case of this MHX blank, that is a lifetime warranty. (MY lifetime...my kid's and wife do not build rods).

And since most rod failures due to a manufacturing defect occur within the first 30 days of use, this might be the best $50 you ever spend. With a wide-screen television, the life expectancy is 10 years, so the likelihood of you ever using that warranty is very slim."

Note: I would maintain an escrow account with at least 25% of these additional monies for the inevitable rebuild work we all receive.

Just a thought...let me know what you think.

Excellent feedback. This is exactly where I wanted this thread to go. To get other ideas, other than: "We guarentee our rods like Simano." We are not Shimano, nor should we be try to be.( I use the Shimano name as an example. Their warrenties are excellent, and they make a good product. It is out of respect, not disdain that I use them as an example.)
I like what said, as well as the others. If the Customer wants all the bells and whistles of the full coverage warrenty, fine. We will provide it. I will use my friend again as an example. He wants a rod built, and guarenteed. I know I will have to replace about 5 for him, as he is a terrible fisherman, does not take care of anything. (he also shears off lower units) To do business with him, I have to bundle in the costs of 5 replacement rods. If a good customer comes in, and you know he will buy 5 rods from you, compared to my friend, or someone who may buy one, you nay have to have 2 different business plans regarding service after the sale.
I thing Gary has a good idea. It will be interesting to see how others think on this issue.
I have been in a service industry, and customer service based businesses my whole life. No one believes in customer service, satisfaction, and warrenties than I do. Currently I am in the art business. It is all customer service. In a prior career, I was heavily imvolved in processes that were directly involved with the customer and their products we sold them. We were very "activity-based-costing minded. Everything we did was based on this. Even the cost of warrenty based service must determined, and dealt with. Or you just forget about it, and do it for nothing, and at a loss.
Gary has a good point. The mfr has a warrenty on the $50 blank, which costs $40 to actually replace due to shipping costs only. But what about everything else? There is no free ride here.
You need to determine how you want to handle this for yourself. The intent here is to just help us think thru the issues.
Thanks for the input!

Kyle Robinson