I have had a customer bring me two identical rods, both fairly new wanting them reworked with micro guides. This is not a problem, I've done a bunch lately, only these rods are factory painted with a ton of epoxy finish on them. I removed the guides from the 1st one, used a razor knife and removed most of the epoxy then put the rod in my lathe to do some sanding. Using cloth backed 320 grit paper I started slowly removing the ridges of epoxy. On the second guide from the tip as I was sanding it snapped between my fingers! Like a piece of uncooked speghetti. I wasn't bending the blank or putting a lot of pressure on it and it wasn't getting hot but it snapped. I called the customer and worked out a settlement as this was a practically new, name brand, big name signature signature series rod. He wanted me to go ahead and do the other rod for him. I removed the guides, started cleaning them up and noticed that the blank is damaged. You can see where two of the original guides were mounted because the blank is sunk in. Where I sanded the paint is off except where the sandpaper skips over the low spot where the guidefoot had been. They must have really wrapped these things tight!

My question is what would you do? The guy sent me two rods that were working just fine and now one is broke and the other one I am betting breaks the 1st time he uses it. I feel bad for him, he paid a good bit for the rods and his only complain was that he wasn't getting the distance he wanted out of his cast and wanted to see if the micros helped like he had heard they would. He can't send them back because I have removed the guides so the "life time" warranty is void even though there is evidence of bad workmanship. I do not feel like I owe him anything for this second rod because I didn't damage it. I just uncovered the damage. What would you do?

I'm sorry for writing a book but felt you needed the info.

The problem isn't so much the tension of the thread, but the fact that the guides do not sit flat on the blank. Take a close look at the underside of those guide feet - I'll bet you they're rough as a cob, sit on their ends or heels (usually ends) and will have a burr on the end where they were ground. It doesn't take much thread tension to force that end into the rod blank. Sort of like somebody standing on your hand while wearing a high-heel shoe.

I would photograph the damage and send him a photo and explain why the rod broke and why the next one is likely to do so. I would replace the first rod, add guides to the second but tell him you are not supplying any warranty against breakage.

.............

Tom, I have replaced the first rod with one I built. I was thinking the same thing about the second as you. I think I am going to put guides on the 2nd over the bad places and use an under wrap to try to beef it up a little and tell him that if and when it breaks I'll be glad to build him another rod and give him a 10% discount. I sent pictures when I called to tell him what I had found. He is a nice guy and I really like him but I can't be replacing rods that he bought from other people that are damaged. Its no wonder they stopped selling those rods after one year on the market.

I no longer under wrap all guides as was my practice in the past, but I have heard some interesting thoughts about the situation described. One is to give the blank a light epoxy coating where the guides will be positioned. I don't particularly like this solution, as epoxy is heavy. It would seem obvious that by taking care with guide preparation this situation could be avoided.
While I won't under wrap micros, I am thinking of using an under wrap (again) on most other builds. It looks great, the amount of size A thread required adds VERY little weight, and extra epoxy is absolutely minimal.
As an FYI, after prepping guides, I hit them with a shot of high-pressure air to remove any loose metal, and then run the guide across my lips. I find that (at my age anyway) they are much more sensitive than my fingers.

I'd call the manufacturer and ask them to stand behind the rods, maybe even see if they'll send you a blank as a replacement. Even though the warranty is void, a number of manufacturers will fix the problem and chalk it up to goodwill.

Jon

Like you say Gary, it's all in the guide prep. I guess with store bought rods some companies see -guide feet prepped - so they don't bother .

Bill - willierods.com

Jon's solution is the best. Send them high resolution pictures that clearly show the blank(s) were compromised by wrapping or improper guide foot preperation, and they may send you completed rods, they may not, and if you ask real nicely they might even send you just a couple blanks. Don't know if you don't try.