I konw split grips are the thing, and you can do some pretty cool looks with them. I have built quite a few. No matter how I look at it, the weight removed from behind where you hold the rod only makes it more tip heavy.

This to me is a performance reducer, as I really like a well balanced rod, and so do many guys I know. Does anyone else feel this way? Other than being a popular trend and look, from a performance stand point I just don't buy it.

Marc

Great questions and although I technically agree with you, I think it's a matter of "little difference". You see, if you do the math, adding weight a few inches below the reelseat turns out to be fairly insignificent compared to making the top end of the rod lighter by removing less weight at greater distances from the reel seat. The best 'bang for the buck' boils down to reducing weight on the top end.

So I choose to give the customer what he wants (at this point in time a split grip) at the same time making a better balanced lighter rod. When the pendulum swings back the other way towards 'I want a full grip', I will accommodate, but by that time we custom builders will have invented a new wrinkle that combines both scenarios which some builders are currently working on. I love this sport.

I agree and disagree. For me the rod should be balanced first and foremost. IT's not impossible to build a rod with split grips and have it balanced though. Everythign is a trade off, youcould move the seat up towards the tip by an inch, but that might make the grip too long for fishing the way you are comfy. YOu could also use a heavier material (I know counteproductive) that you like the feel of which will keep the rod balanced, but without adding the weight of a full split grip (specifically with the composite cork)

Natural cork is the lighest material that is practical to construct handles from. It also has low thermal mass and poor thermal conductivity which means that it will be warm to the touch. In my judgment all of the new handle materials that I have seen come in second best to cork except in applications where the handle takes a lot of abuse.
I agree with Marc that split grips look cool but not much weight is really removed with a split grip and as Bobby points out the weight is being removed at the point on the rod where it will have the least affect on rod performance. Moving the first guide back an inch from the tip will have more affect on rod performance.
Having said all of that, if one is attempting to get the absolute best performance out of a blank then a split grip out of cork is probably the way to go.

Look at it this way, if balance is you goal the split grip will allow you to balance a rod with less weight. As an example with basic math; if you remove .5 oz of cork from the midle of the grip, you can add .25 oz to the butt to achieve the same balance. You end up with a lighter and better performing rod.

Billy,
I agree with you that everything is a question of trade offs. But in most fishing situations the problem is not really the static balance of the rod. You can balance a rod statically or so that it feels balanced when it is not in motion but the instant that the rod is put in motion then the weight is not really important it is the inertia that is important and the inertia is a funcion of the mass and the velocity. The mass will track the weight but the velocity is even more important than the mass in determining how balanced the rod will feel when it is in motion.
I think that you will have a better rod in terms of all of the rods important performance characteristics if you will work on reducing the mass (weight) and not worry too much about the static balance.

Robert,
I think that your math is suspect. The detrimental affect of a given mass increses exponentially on a rods performance, performance as measured by the rods resonant frequency, as the mass(weight) is moved from the butt to the tip of a rod.

Robert nailed it, if your goal is to build the best balanced and lightest rod the last thing you want is a full grip.

Emory Harry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Robert,
> I think that your math is suspect. The
> detrimental affect of a given mass increses
> exponentially on a rods performance, performance
> as measured by the rods resonant frequency, as the
> mass(weight) is moved from the butt to the tip of
> a rod.
Emory,
I think the math is correct. When discussing rod balance, we're dealing with a lever. If you double the distance from the fulcrum, you can cut the weight in half.

That point always comes up when discussing balance, that once you put a lure on and cast it 100 feet, and have line drag the rod is always going to be tip heavy regardless of how it balances when being held with nothing hanging off the tip. Can't argue that at all as it makes perfect sense. This is one of those things where if the person fishing the rod or building it isn't happy with how it feels, thy should do what they feel is right to "fix" the problem. If the OP feels the rods are unbalanced, and is unhappy with how the rod feels when he is fishing, shouldn't he build it so that he is happy with teh rod?

I think far too many people read things and feel inadequate if they don't follow the masses. I don't know how else to put it. I know we are all trying to build the best rod for the type of fishing we do, so who cares if you are going to lose internet points if you dont' do what everyone else is saying you have to do?

Is there a mathematical formula that addresses the " cool factor" of split grips?

Marc,
In my opinion - split grips are there for one reason, and one reason only - SAVE MONEY.
Save money, both for the rod builder, as well as the client.

Lets face it - great cork is very expensive. It is easy to spend $3 per ring for a 1/2 inch ring.
If you have a long handle of - say 12 inches - you are looking at 24 rings, or $72.
However, if you go to a split grip, you can reduce the ring count to something like 6. or 7. Thereby - reducing the cost from $72 to $18.
Sure you can use less expensive cork and the difference will be less, but it will still be significant.

If one were to fish - blindfolded with a well made full grip rod, compared to a well made split grip rod - I would suggest that your performance would be essentially the same. i.e. same fatigue factors, same fish in the boat etc.

But, in these days of scarcer and scarcer raw materials, anything to save material is a good thing.

Having said that - I really don't think that a well build split grip is any worse than a full grip except for one thing.
If you want to use the rod in a rod holder - I don't think that a split grip is a good idea.
Also, if you are a two handed caster, I also don't think that a split grip is as comfortable as a full grip.
Sure, you can grab the butt ball end of a split grip for two handed casting, but the full nice cork grip is much nicer to grab than the butt of a split grip rod - for your 2nd casting hand.

So, build either and both will be great rods.
If you don't have the need for a rod holder, or two handed casting, go with the split grip to save money.

I think that most fishermen would - if they do some blind testing - that performance is essentially equal.

Take care
Roger

Robert,
Lever is only part of what you are dealing with. Leverage is like static balance, just part of the problem, in my judgment a minor part of the problem.

Billy,
"Internet points" I do not even know what they are much less care who wins or loses them. You can have mine if you want them.

Roger,
You are paying a heck of a lot for cork.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2009 10:38PM by Emory Harry.

I think split grips give a rod builder one more spot on a fishing rod to do something fancy. I have built many split grip rods, and the all look really cool. personally I hate fishing with them. Split grip rods are for one handed casters, or guys that cast with their hands clasped together in a similar manor that one would shoot a hand gun. I have a heck of a time when I'm test casting them, one hand on cork, and the other hand on the blank. I built myself one split grip rod, and it has a long enough grip near the reel seat so that I can comfortably make a two handed cast without having my left hand on the smaller dia. blank. If you are a one handed caster, than there is really no reason to have any more grip behind your dominant casting hand. That's my take on it.

Steve Bro
(BroCo Custom Rods)

Emory,
I was using the price of the cork to make a point.
Yes, it is pretty easy to find cork for 50 cents a ring, if you are willing to fill holes and gaps.
However, if you want 100% really fine cork as we used to be able to buy 10 years ago for 50 cents a ring, we now have to pay a much much higher price for virtually flawless cork.

Just take a look at what you get for a typical 50 cents a ring cork - compared to what you get for $3 per ring for cork.

The price is the reason, that when you go into commercial fishing rod stores and look closely at the cork handles on may of todays production rods- you simply have to shake your head and look away at the extremely poor quality cork that are now shipping with some rods.

It is all about world wide supply of cork. We are running out of good cork.

The use of cork for years in the building of ships, and the making of cork stoppers for wine bottles and the super growth of the wine drinking populations of the world have all led to this shortage.

That is why - the wine industry is turning more and more to synthetic stoppers - as the rod building industry is turning to other handle materials besides cork. Simply because it is tougher and tougher to get
very high grade cork.

Sure, you can buy a 10 inch pre made handle for 5-20 depending on the vendor and quality. However, in some cases, it it pretty hard to put any of these handles on a blank and then put your name on the rod as the builder of this rod - due to the quality of the cork in the pre made handle.

Take care
Roger

I do a lot of high speed jigging, and I personally prefer a slightly heavier balanced rod (specifically, right on the 6" foregrip with my saragosa 8000 attached). To me in this particular case, balance is everything. A lighter overall outfit that is tip heavy, will completely wear me out in less than 2 hours while that slightly heavier balanced outfit will not. I've put them side by side on the same day, and within 15-20 minutes I can easily feel the strain on my muscles.

That said with inshore rods I prefer the lightest outfit I can get my hands on regardless of the balance, while with heavier offshore stuff, I simply don't care as the durability factor takes over. All simply depends on what is needed for the application.

Bass, I cant figure those little green things out, so I just leave them alone.

Personally, I would not want split grips on all of my rods. I like split grips on a rod that will be used for pitching or flipping but I do not like to make long casts with a split grip because it feels awkward (when casting with a split grip, my left hand will be holding the blank and it feels awkward to me when making a hard cast). I prefer a full grip on a rod that will be used for casting deep cranks, spinnerbaits/buzzbaits, carolina rigs, etc. because I would rather have both hands on the grip.

I got rain drops on my rod once and threw off the balance! Has a lot to do with the type of rod and style of fishing. We all build for difference types of fishing. My 50 lb trolling rods can care less how heavy the tip is when a 80 pound tuna is running . Might as well have a Buick tied to the end .

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

I build both ways, although I prefer splits:
- less weight no matter how you shake it
- good place to put the hookkeeper which is less weight toward the tip and one less place for line to hang
- lower cost to build no matter what grade of cork
- great for two handed casting - the correctly size "ball" on the end perfectly positions your off hand on the butt of the rod

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Roger,
The reason that many wine producers are changing from cork to other stoppers is that many cork producers have been disinfecting the cork with chlorine bleach. The chorine converts the anisole found in cork to trichloroanisole (TCA). This compound imparts an aroma and taste of wet moldy cardboard to the wine. Such wine will not bring a very good price.
Mike Blomme