Hi All. Long time builder, first time poster. I'm not sure how this board escaped my attention for so long. Back in the day I wrapped for a guy named Dave Dunlop out in Colorado, he might be in MI now. If anyone knows him let me know.

I live in the Caribbean now and I'm building myself a couple spinning rods for kayak trolling for small-ish tuna (to 20#), barracuda (up to 20#), and hopefully wahoo (big). I use braid to 20-30 pound fluoro topshot. The kayak is a very mobile platform and once hooked big fish either dive (tuna) or just tow you around until they get tired. So the big stress on the rod is on the strike and initial run, then it's sleigh ride time. Does anyone see a reason to go w/ the $40+ all aluminum reel seats? I'll be fine saving myself $15 each and getting the graphite reel seats w/ the metal reinforced hoods, right?

The graphite/nylon seats are not inherently weak. They will stand up to what you plan to do with no problem.

As you mentioned, it's hard to really put the screws to anything big in a kayak - even if you lock the drag down, the boat will move in the water. There's not really anything solid for the fish to pull against.

...........

I'm with Tom. In a yak, drag off of the reel isn't that big of a factor.
Go for it and let us know how the island life is treating you.

Dang, this board works FAST. Thanks. Your input sounds right on. Kayak tackle is a different critter, they don't need to be nearly as heavy as boat or shore rods. But they still take wicked strikes. I'll post pictures of my results when I build the rods in January. Right now I'm thinking:

Blank: Batson Rainshadow RX7 Saltwater, 8' 2 pc, 15-25 pound line, moderate fast action, model SW967F
Guides: Alps double-foot guides of some sort
Guide rings: the Batson “H” Ring (Hard Aluminum Oxide), but considering SiC especially for the tip-top, perhaps sized a tad larger on the small end of the rod to accinodate wind-on swivels.
Handle: foam grips 10" rear, 6-10" front, graphite reel seat of some sort
Nylon Gimble

I just added the nylon gimble part because I noticed the RAM tube rod holders have a raised ridge in the bottom of the tube that is apparently made to accomidate gimbles. If you have a gimble, you can flip the spinning reel upside down in the rod holder and it will stay 'locked in' upside down. Thus keeping the reel ~6" farther off of the water & away from the paddle stroke. THAT could be a neat trick for you pros looking to round up some custom business from the kayak crowd.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2009 11:32AM by brian neff.

brian neff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I just added the nylon gimble part because I
> noticed the RAM tube rod holders have a raised
> ridge in the bottom of the tube that is apparently
> made to accomidate gimbles. If you have a gimble,
> you can flip the spinning reel upside down in the
> rod holder and it will stay 'locked in' upside
> down. Thus keeping the reel ~6" farther off of the
> water & away from the paddle stroke. THAT could be
> a neat trick for you pros looking to round up some
> custom business from the kayak crowd.


That's a great idea.

FWIW, I fish much the same waters. I have used the Fuji DPSH reel seat on many rods over the years and never had a failure. They make a nice graphite gimbal with cap too. The SIC tip top is nice.

Fuji graphite seats are STANDARD on the TUna jigging rods being imported to teh US form Japan. I was just in aJigging Shop in NJ, I saw several rods which had landed plenty of Tuna form 150-300#s which had Fuji DPS 20 & 22 seats and Fuji MNSG guides. It's amazing how overkill we are on our rods.

My two cents are that one rarely regrets buying better equipment, especially when one is chasing bigger fish. You'll do fine with a graphite seat, but if it were me, I'd get an Alps triangular reel seat, and not look back. They are, in my opinion, tremendously good for the way you'll be fishing -- they're great with spinning reels, and will be worth the extra loot you shell out.

Wow, Fuji MNSG guides & DPS 20 & 22 seats on rods that catch 150# tuna from a large boat. That answers everything I need to know about what I "need" in terms of durability.

Now Chris' point is well taken about what is "nice". For $120/rod plus my time and effort I can have a sweet fishing stick that will stand up to any challenge for years. Or for $160/rod I can do the same but have it be "nice". BTW Chris, you like the triangular better than the CentraLock?

Excellent definitions of either side of the spectrum. I'll start w/ the $8 Fuji seat and see if Santa brings me Alps

Most guys using spin rods for that type of fishign HATE the aluminum seats for a variety of reasons. THey are uncomfortable to hold, and they are heavy. These guys are really splitting hairs though, as I was told that he was not going to use the Palm Support seats (even though they were comfy) because they were so much heavier than a regular DPS seat. Personally I don't care what you use, I'm just letting you know what the Japanese style rods are using on fish much, much larger than anything you're going to see under your Yak.

FWIW, here is a photo of a rod that took 170# BFT. IT is 100% carbon, whatever that means - it's a new material they are using, I don't know anything except what I was spoon fed. We obviously tried to break the rod - it DOES NOT, and I mean under any circumstance - bend anymore than you see in teh photo. Even when they had the 170# fish on. [www.noreast.com]

Billy,
In the second photo you commented on how little effort you put into a bend like that. Do you think that the point is to use the rod for lure presentation and then when the fish is on it bends a little easier until it shuts off - shortening the lever to give the angler an advantage. Almost like a straight tug-o-war. Am I way off here? I had thought about this in the past for tuna rods.

<<<Most guys using spin rods for that type of fishign HATE the aluminum seats for a variety of reasons. THey are uncomfortable to hold, and they are heavy.>>>
That's the second time I've heard that. And since I'm mail-order only I can't hold one in my hand first to compare. I'm planning to stick w/ the graphite plastic style. If I get a major twist in my shorts I may look at a 'fancier' graphite one. If it's better, it's better. I ain't gonna fight that fact on an $8 reel seat. The extra money might go to those inexpensive Fuji SiC guides you turned me onto. Those look LIGHT.


Interesting thought about that pretzel-rod having a short lever arm when loaded. That's about the ONLY advantage I can see to that rod. Except to make a point that it can't be broken and then use it for crappie & perch. Come to think of it, that may be the ONE rod you actually can use for crappie or monster tuna! We finally have it and now we don't want it.

The rod in teh second photo didn't really bend like that until we were setting up the photo op and were trying to show it is unbreakable. IT was NOT easy to bend the rod like that, I think that rod was rated to fish a max of 15kg of drag (30#'s), and when we were bending it "normally", it bent to a point right near teh foregrip, just not as exagerrated as in teh picture. MAny ofthe Japanese style rods need therod to bend with that parabolic action to impart teh proper action to teh jig for their style of "up and down" speed jigging.

Steve, to answer your question directly - I think that what you said is accurate regarding shortening the lever. Please keep in mind I do NOT do this type of fishing, and am relaying info based on my research which consists of reading a LOT of internet forums, and speaking to a lot of people. Those who like the rods that bend like that say it makes fighting the fish a lot easier - this does NOT include the Shimano's which are the worst rods for this application because they have no lifting power whatsoever. The gus who uses these parabolic rods and do not like them hate having the rod bend so far down since there is noroom to move the rod around the gunnel/outboards when a fish circles under the boat. Also keep in mind many of these guys are using extremely short rods, 4'8'-5'8 with a majority in the 5'2 range, so the level is very short to begin with.

If you spend time reading some of hte jigging/popping forums I thnk you'll see a lot of what we consider "tradional" is beign replaced by a wave of new techniques, styles, materials, and rod designs. The majority of the US is lagging way behind in these areas, but that is usually how it is when it comes to fishing technolgy, we drag about 3 years behind Japan.

I've never used a CentraLock seat, Brian, so I can't say.

I also can't comment on what other guys feel. I can say, though, that the Alps triangular reel seat, to me, feels great in my hand. I actually bought one for the first time for a conventional rod, and when I saw it and played with it, I liked it so much that I started toying with ways to use them on rods other than heavy saltwater boat rods. I can see how guys would hate cylindrical aluminum seats on spinning rods, but the size and shape of this one fits my hand perfectly. I just played around with it a bit more, and I very much like the way the triangle fits in my palm when a spinning reel is mounted in it. It's really overkill, and it's slightly but noticeably heavier than the size 22 DPSM I just compared it to, but I'm still toying with the idea of using one on a surf rod -- I like them that much.

But they're not cheap, and they're probably too expensive to buy one on a whim. If you're not sure, go with a good graphite seat.

Thanks Chris for the review, especially comparing the triangle & cylindrical style Alps. I owe you one. We'll see if Santa is interested in getting both the triangle & the fuji seats and letting me return one. I think I'm also sold on the SiC Fuji guides.

I'm astounded at the quality of information on this board.

Brain, IMHO the anodized aluminum reel seat and MNSG guides are way more than you need. I'm making the assumption you will be fishing no more than 30 pound test. Those parts are what I'd be using once I got to 50 pound class. They will certainly get the job done but there are lighter choices that are totally adequate. Take a look at the Virtus light guides. They come in 316 stainless or titanium. The Fuji's are 304 stainless.

If you won't be abusing your equipment single foot guides are plenty strong. Heck guys are catching tarpon far bigger than any wahoo you will catch on fly rods.

I also like the Virtus Lite guides and have been using and sellign a lot of them sinc eI started recommending them. I only use the Titanium version - here's the thing about them - they have the same weight as the MNSG's, guide for guide (the MN's are actually a couple of hundreths lighter). I use them for the same applications as the MNSg's, where someone wants a guide that will not rust. I am using these mroe and more because they are a great value, and a great guide.

Regarding SF guides - PErsoanlly that is what I would use, but the durability factor comes into play here. IF you are hard on your gear, banging them around, storing them carelessly - the SF guides will not hold up very long at all. Even with a Locking wrap, they will be knocked out of alignment, or bent and mangled. The smaller the SF guide, the better, since it has less to "grab" onto and get damaged.