Hi all. First post here and have for a while been finding much great info so thanks. Time for a question though.
I'm building up a couple of rods a spin and a casting but I will only talk about the spin for now.
The blank is a SJ700 gl3 5'10 which will be used for small minnows and soft plastics. My reel is a Shimano Stella 1000. The spool diameter is 40mm or 1.57 inch. Grip will be short single handed cork.
I'm keen to use micro guides but have read I still need a stripper and an intermediate guide before the micro's at the tip. I was thinking about the Fuji TKLAG K series in a size 20 being half the spool diameter , then another K series in a size 12 then a TKTAG size 6 ,then size 3 , 3 plus a 3 for the tip. Does this sound right? 20, 12 , 6, 3, 3 , 3 or should I go 20 ,10 , 4 , 3 , 3 , 3? Will 5 guides be enough? Am I better off with 6? Casting accuracy over distance is my main concern for this rod. It will be a small stream , kayak , Australian bass rod. (like a small mouth) Look forward to any ideas.
Thanks Tim

Important missing information - line type and rating

IF I were you I would order all sizes of cheap spinning guides, test cast and see which combo works best, then order the expensive guides in teh sizes you need. you'll learn a lot more that way, and save a lot of money in the long rund, and not have to rely on someone else for info because you'll be teh one others are relying on since you'll know what works and doens't work first hand

The last one that I built (4-6# mono and a Stradic 1000) had the following:

BYAG25, BYAG16, BYAG8L, BYAG6, BLAG4 (QTY 4), BFAT4.5

I tested plenty of sizes and found the best line control and distance with this combination ... of course, opinions will vary.

Man ya'll are using some big guides. I start with a 12 on my inshore tournament tackle.

I agree with Jim 100%. I love the BYAG Alconites, height is perfect. And with the 1000 series Stradic the spool dia calls for a #25 butt guide. I would not go any smaller than a #20 on the butt guide,preferably a #25. Like Jim, I found that to be as good a setup as I can get.

On another note, If you use a slip float with the nylon nail knot bobber stop you will have to go up a size or two on the running guides.

J.B.Hunt
Bowling Green, KY



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2009 11:08AM by Jay Hunt.

What line size and type will you be using?

...............

I agree with Jim and Jay on the size of the first guides.
Too many folks make the mistake of going with too small a first guide on a spinning rod. If they do, it results in a less than perfect retrieve as the line spool rotates.

I generally go with the idea of going about 1/2 way up the rod - and then dropping a straight line from that point to the side of the line spool that is furthest away from the rod.
I then select a guide and its placement to allow the line to just touch the side of the guide that is furthest away from the rod.

The reason that I suggest going 1/2 way up the rod, is that is about the point where the micro guides kick in and for all practical purposes, the line will be virtually touching the blank as it continues from that point to the tip of the rod. So, the goal is to get nice smooth line flow - both out and back in to the line spool as the line spool rotates.

With respect to casting, one can go to a smaller guide and see few effects - up to a point. But as one retrieves, one quickly notices the effect of having too small a first guide on the rod.

Do some first guide size changing and test casting and Retrieving and you will quickly note the differences.

Take care
Roger

WEll, on my spin rods with a Diawa 1500/2000 size spool, I use TATSG 12, 8, TUNSG 6, then MKSG 2.5's, or size TLSG 3.5's. This is on 7'6 - 8' spin rods where I can push the stripper guide far out. 6 & 10# Fireline. None of this info does you any good though.

Regarding retrieving the line - on the longer spin rods with lighter line, the bigger guides cause teh line to go on teh spool with less tension, which inevitably results in a cast which a ball of braid pops off teh spool.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2009 12:29PM by Billy Vivona.

Height is generally more important than ring size. Often the use of larger guides is really just a means of getting more height.

If you're using braid, or very light mono, you can get by with a smaller ring. Larger, stiffer mono, tends to work better with a little larger ring.

With sufficient height, and the line I'd assume you'll be using on that size reel, I doubt you would ever need anything larger than a 20 and a very high frame 16 is likely to do as well.

For what it's worth, I don't like the line to rotate around the entire circumference of the ring on the retrieve, this results in loose line on the spool and allowing line twist to come onto the reel instead of being somewhat pushed back out to the end where you can allow it to unwind by keeping your lure out of the water for just a few seconds upon the completion of the retrieve.

..............

Thanks for the info so far. Line will be 8 pound braid to 6 flurocarbon leader . (i have actually been thinking of going to straight Mono in 6 pound) The knot I usually use is a double Uni for the leader.

You might just find a spool of hybrid line (mono core with fluorocarbon shell) to your liking. It would likely do very well for what you are wanting to do. That would also eliminate a leader/knot.

Jim , thanks for that. I must say I'm not a fan of the wind knots I get when using braid and light lures so I will look into the hybrid line.
Tim

Jjay and others using the 1000 size stadic. Is the spool diameter on that 40mm also? Do you as a rough rule use a guide 50% the size of the spool diameter? Thinking now to use K series guides all the way so the smallest they do is a 4. So the last few guides on this will be the low frame TKTAG 4 then into the higher frame closer to the reel.
Tim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2009 04:28PM by Tim Robinson.

I have always based my striper guide size on the spool size on the reel that will be used.[50%] The question I have is with the new reels that are being produced now with the larger spool diamiter. I am finding it could take a 30mm guide to make up for the lager spools. I think this could cause weight problems on a med. spinning rod. Any ideas?

Just buy a reel with a smaller spool, or wait a couple years and the manufacturers will move back to small diameter spools claiming they give greater distance. This has all happened before and is coming full circle once again.

Jon,
I have to agree with the use of the larger spools for better casting distance.
One simply only has to look at distance casting rods and reels and you will find that the vast majority of winning long distance casters use reels with very large spools.
The simple physics of the matter is that fewer loops coming off the reel means less drag and potentially further distance.

Whether you use a size 16, 20, or even 30 the weight is really somewhat not important since the slight extra weight is relatively close to the butt of the rod and does little to add tip weight to the rod.

Most of the rods that I build and will be used with the larger reel spools are being built with a size 30 first guide.
As one of the earlier posts suggested, when you are using a heavier mono line like 20 lb test - the use of this larger first guide becomes more important as well.

As has been posted over and over again - tape on some different sized guides with the reel to be used on the rod and do some test casts and retrieves. Then change to other guides and retest. Use the guide sets and sizes that work best for the particular blank and reel to be used.
It is also a good idea to talk to the client to try to obtain a very good idea as to the potential uses for the rod, the type line - lb test and type - to be used, as well as potential lure and bait weights to be used with the rod.
All of these factors should have some effect on your final guide type, size, and placement decisions.

Take care
Roger


p.s.
Remember, many users of fishing rods are NOT concerned about casting distance. They care concerned with control, accuracy, feel and other reasons.
I would venture to say that most fishermen most of the time are not that concerned with maximum casting distance.

For my Stradic and Stella 1000 I have found byag 20 - 12 - 8L then blag 4 runners to be a great Set up. Just built a stcroix spinner with tatsg 20 12 8 then tlsg 3.5 runners really like it but I have a feeling the tatsg guides will require good handling manners not to bend.